[dafish]

Intermixing coolants has come up again elsewhere, so here some thoughts. BTW, I seriously doubt we're going to get any manufacturer telling us you can intermix different types, but I do believe some can be mixed without problem. Here's my take on things:

1) DexCool: Don't mix it with anything.
2) Old Green Inorganic: Don't mix it with anything.
3) PG (Propylene Glycol): In theory these can be mixed, but I don't see much supporting that.

Propylene Glycol Vs Ethylene Glycol - Industrial Chemicals

Propylene glycol vs ethylene glycol - Both products are two chemical compounds used as some low-temperature heat transfer fluids. Get details here!

ecolink.com

4) I suspect, as I've said before, the Hoats and P-hoats can be intermixed.

 

[dafish]

In another thread I was asked how a surfactant can help cooling. Rather than answer in that thread I've elected to elaborate more here and direct folks this way.

BTW, some if this is discussed in pots #17 an

------------------------------
A really great, but complicated answer. If you're measuring water temperature leaving the engine, as most water temperature sensors do, it better be "no change" or a mistake has been made. This as the engine thermostat is in control of what temperature the water temps is allowed to circulate. Since no change was made to the thermostat, no change should be expected at the temperature sensor.

Now if you measure at the exit of the radiator it will somewhat lower, but really don't expect nucleic boiling in the radiator. There will still be benefits from reduced surface tension, but the affect has to be smaller (I've seen no testing on it) than say in a cylinder head.

Where you get the largest advantage one can measure is in CHT reduction. Here you're certainly getting nucleic boiling and a surfactant will make a relatively large difference. The next two measurable points would be oil temp and engine block temps. Both will be lower, but how much the oil temp would drop is hard to call.

Anyway, on an engine struggling to manage heat the extra water percentage increases the heat capacity of the coolant mixture (it can literally hold more heat per unit (lets say quart) of coolant. The thermostat will still only crack open at 180, but there is more capacity available now. Basically it's like increasing radiator capacity by something like 10%. Water passages in the engine block too.

You could measure this by timing how fast a 1 quart 60% EG mixture reached 210f and returned to room temperature and then repeat it with a 40%. The 40% EG would take longer to reach 210F and longer to cool back down. This as it stores more heat per unit.

Now that you've got that you want to get more heat out of the block and into the water. Enter a surfactant. The thermostat still only cracks open at 180, but now the block, in particular the cylinder head, is measurably cooler.

Now for "joe average" this gets more engine timing/and or reduced octane demand. For somebody struggling with engine heat we've both increased heat capacity and pulled down block and oil temps. Since oil is cooled (and heated) by engine coolant oil temp reduction is hard to predict, for the engine is always heating the engine oil to at least 180.

This exact same thing applies to our IC / aux cooling system. I hope we're not seeing boiling at the intercooler, but reduced surface tension should conduct more heat, and of course the higher water content make the system "bigger" for it's physical size.

All of this is being implemented in project "Cool Power", and I expect to post on it soonish.

 

[Michale]

I quickly scanned thru this so forgive me if I missed it but what about adding a switch controlled 12" fan that blows mounted to the front of the front radiator?
I went from 4000 to 11,800 feet in a short distance and went into limp mode so I am thinking this would help. Thanks, Mike.

 

[dafish]

Altitude, Air Density, and How It Affects Rzrs

I’ve seen a few posts now overlook the affects of altitude, and so I’m going to present a few things for consideration. Air density, and this directly affects both power and cooling, is reduced by 3% per 1000 foot. HP loss then, at say 10,000 feet, is 30% reduced. Cooling capacity is now...

www.rzrforums.net

And:

Project Cool Power

I've mentioned this post-to-be a few times so I've gone ahead and shared it. WARNINGS: I broke a few vertebrea and have been slow getting to this project. In particular the 170F thermostat makes me nervous until I get mine out and validate I'm right (any day now). Nor have I been able to...

www.rzrforums.net

Net:
12K feet is just over 1/3rd reduction in cooling capacity. Was I you'd I'd be taking a hard look at the "Cool Power" post I've also linked. More water is gonna be step 1. Getting your fan on sooner, I suggest a tune, would be job #2.

If heat continues to be a problem I'd consider an oil cooler as that removes a lot of heat load from the water cooling system (I'm assuming you have a turbo).

Fan:

I'm going 6" myself. Thing to balance out is the front fan reduces airflow when not running. How much is hard to estimate. Worse, fans "pull" better than they "push", so there is some efficacy loss too. Of course if you've a '16 or older you can Trigger the stock fan manually.

However, I don't expect the fan to do a lot for you. Once you started getting hot it would already have been on. You need more capacity. Think about the freezing point and consider moving to 38% EG.

 

[Thestir]

This was a good read, years ago I was running a DS650 Bombardier set up for sand. Was running 13.5 compression and what I found best was 1/3 silicon and phosphate free yellow, 2/3 distilled water and Red Line Water Wetter.

I do not need below 0 freezing protection.

For the Water Wetter, I started using it when my uncle had a DeLorean and it would run hot in Phoenix in the summer, he added it with no other changes and saw a 10 degree drop in real world temps around town. Scientific, no! But my uncle has been into performance since his youth and is not one to chase snake oils.

Anyway, this has served me well in everything from my old SHO Taurus to my 8.1 Suburban and all my liquid cooled toys.

 

[dafish]

Thank you.

What was the other 1/3rd?

I'm just doing this from memory, but I think the phosphate free stuff if what today is called "european".

 

[Thestir]

I was embarrassed to say lol:

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/o-reilly/chemicals---fluids/antifreeze/antifreeze/e59e98316193/o-reilly-1-gallon-yellow-concentrate-coolant-antifreeze/afz6/87219?q=Coolant&pos=4

 

[dafish]

Not what I meant. You said you used "1/3 silicon and phosphate free yellow, 1/3 distilled water and Red Line Water Wetter".

So that's 2/3 rds. Water Wetter is what, 16oz? so what is the missing 1/3rd?

 

[dafish]

Just an FYI, for my coolant mix I ended up using:

8 qt's of distilled water
5 quarts of DexCool
16 oz of Rislone Hyper Cool

FWIW, I bought two of the best reviewed hydrometers I could find. Neither was accurate for beans.

I then used a refractometer several times to confirm I was getting readings consistent with what Preston published. It was within 1-2f of freeze point at all concentrations I tested. The above shows I'm good to -10f for freeze protection, something in the area of -53f for burst protection.

 

[Thestir]

Oops lol, sorry was 2/3 distilled water not 1/3. So basically 1 gallon AF, 2 gallons distilled water so 12 quarts total AND a 12oz bottle of Water Wetter, I think its recommended at 1oz per qt.

Updated my reply.

 

[dafish]

Ah, 33% EG. A pretty perfect setup. Very nice. Cleary you're someplace warm.