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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Thank you sir.

Kevin, if I was thinking about cooling your car I'd be thinking about water injection as well. Not something I'm likely to ever get into on this forum, but a very cool (pun intended) thing for a lot of high performance applications.

I wonder if it would be possible to build one based on boost pressure (so it ramped up flow as boost built) yet triggered in two stages, perhaps based on RPM, or better yet ECU's load calculation (assuming it has one), kind off an Off/One jet/Two Jets thing all driven by manifold boost pressure.

meh. I dunno. Thinking out loud (sorta) I guess.
 

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Funny you bring that up...

I have used meth/water injection before on a few other cars and I do like it for when you're running pump gas because it can give you that octane boost you need to run some boost on pump gas. However I have seen less benefit from it when running race fuels or e85, which is what I run now. Also I'm not just running pump e85 anymore, I'm running VP's x85L which is a leaded variant, as far as I have found it's one of the highest octane fuels you can get, it's simply rated as (R+M)/2 = >120. So it wouldn't benefit me in that area but it could help cool IAT's, and if I find myself having too much trouble with those it might be a good option. Again though it's more a band-aid for a problem that could be solved with a better intercooler as well. If I wanted to shed the intercooler completely, let's say maybe to shave some weight and I start running drags only and no duning then it could be an option as well.

Yes you can get a progressive controller that is based on boost or rpm type situations. Here is an example of a system that uses the boost levels to progressively control the injection Customizable DVC-100 Stage 2
 

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on a point that you had touched on. why polaris turns off the the fan when engine is off is not a good idea, i agree with 100%. very few (car) manufactures have the option of fan run-on after engine off.
would you say that installing an electric water pump that would also run with the engine off (and fan) till the whole system is cooled, would be a great choice/option to add to our RZR's? turbo or not.
 

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Wow that's a great write up. I was looking for something like that a couple years back when I serviced the cooling system on all my regular vehicles. It was very difficult to find answers as to all the different kinds of coolants.

My old 800 machines call for regular old glycol coolant, and like you showed it seems this is about as good as any. If I was switching I'd probably go with a G-05, which is what all my Chrysler vehicles use. I need good freeze protection in western Nebraska and don't seem to have a cooling issue, although these first machines didn't have gauges.

Thanks for posting up your work.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
on a point that you had touched on. why polaris turns off the the fan when engine is off is not a good idea, i agree with 100%. very few (car) manufactures have the option of fan run-on after engine off.
would you say that installing an electric water pump that would also run with the engine off (and fan) till the whole system is cooled, would be a great choice/option to add to our RZR's? turbo or not.

electric water pump on = mildly good idea. There isn't a ton of heat soak in IC, but getting at least a brief exchange in to move the water is a good idea. I think I've looked into this before, as I recall that pump runs anytime the ignition switch is on, so that's all we need there.

I'd not mentioned it, but I do intent to see if I can find a way to mount a small "pull" fan onto the lower part of the aux rad..
 
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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
Thanks guys!
 
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Ive never had high temps while driving my 19 xp4t, even the other day when it was 120* ambient out but after stopping and starting it back up the warning light came on because everything just sits there when its shut down. Temp came down normally but I do think polaris should adjust the fan controls a touch lower given the distance coolant has to travel when the Stat fully opened. I do plane on separating my intercooler reservoir to cut down on shared temps/pressure and insulating the intercooler lines running past the exhaust. Am considering the fluid type on the intercooler as well, preferably a different color than green
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 · (Edited)
Just some thoughts:

Coolant should be yellow now.

Go easy on coolant type changes. Be sure you know what you're doing. It's Dex-cool now as an example, but many of us don't trust it (2EA problems) and for sure use nothing green. Personally if I wanted a different color I'd use the Asian P-hoat in either red or blue. And may yet.

Yep, the ECU temp values leave something to be desired.

You REALLY want to either idle for a few minutes at shut own or cycle it on and off a few times over a few minutes. I do both!

Remember, when we do a split tank we're taking some radiator capacity away from the engine (to the degree the coolants intermix)

All the best,
d
 

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Yes, I'm familiar with turbo engines and I always let it idle before shutting it down. Depending on the temp when we stop dictates how long I let it idle for. I've honestly thought about relocating the heat exchanger to open the direct airflow to the radiator itself. And in regards to a fluid change on the intercooler side....I'm leaning towards a water wetter blend since I've used that before
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
good to hear. Yea, not a bad idea if you need it, but I don't generally think we're even close to out of engine cooling, and this way the CIC gets the coldest air possible so it's not all bad.

Shame we don't have a idle time driven automatic shut-down, right?

If I was relocating the IC rad to the rear it would be really tempting to looking moving to air to air.
 

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Well IF i did relocate the exchanger i was gonna go big changes. With my commercial refrigeration experience and the fact that the intercooler has a dedicated fluid pump, im playing with the idea of a chilled reservoir using a 12v condensing unit supplying a coil inside the new reservoir. I like making power from increasing efficiency...ie "free horsepower" :cool: . As of right now I have no cooling issues at all even considering where i live so im not looking at relocating the exchanger quite yet. I do however want to get the systems isolated to each other with a dual chambered reservoir since the stock core in the manifold is prone to cracking......this way im moving fuild at lower temp and reducing the chance of pressure bleed off between the engine system and intercooler system
 

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@dafish
can you expand on the coolant and properties and different brands that are preferred??
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
This link from the reference links is a good start:

Yet in a nutshell is amounts to this ( The key differences):

There were question about IAT (inorganic acid, the old green) being used with aluminums etc. and the silicate level is a bit aggressive in seals and etc. I believe the net was it was really OK, but it had to be changed every other year to be safe. It can't be mixed with anything.

So then came the GM Dex-Cool standard, (an organic acid =OAT) but it used 2-EH as an anti-corrosive. All fine, except it was found to attack some things. Plasticize (softening) some plastics and etc.. (Things GM didn't usually use, but others did). It should not be mixed with anything. It's also reputed to leave gunk in the radiator if there is air in the rad, and it's seems to great gunk with Redlines Water Wetter too. Frankly I don't like the stuff, but its what's in our machines, so...

Then came hybrid OAT's standards (2 really still standing, G-05 and G-48). Nothing wrong with either. Europe has water issues (I don't remember the details) and they have to use phosphate free OAT's, while North America doesn't care and includes phosphates as well as lower levels of silicates. The silicates theoretically aren't perfect. but G-05 HOAT (the latter we're talking about) seems to be fine none the less. 5 year change interval.

The P-HOATS are basically asian formulations, and they are phosphated HOATs with no silicate. The red and blue are, from what I can tell, largely identical and can be intermixed. 5 year change interval.

I believe any HOAT can be intermixed (in north america), and I actually think you can intermix P-HOATs and HOATS too. BUT THAT IS AN I THINK !! !! Check first!!

I'm sure there is more from an environmental perspective regarding the Organic vs Inorganic aspects, but longevity is the key take-away.

Quick and dirty, but hopefully it helps. :)

-d

 

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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
Well IF i did relocate the exchanger i was gonna go big changes. With my commercial refrigeration experience and the fact that the intercooler has a dedicated fluid pump, im playing with the idea of a chilled reservoir using a 12v condensing unit supplying a coil inside the new reservoir. I like making power from increasing efficiency...ie "free horsepower" :cool: . As of right now I have no cooling issues at all even considering where i live so im not looking at relocating the exchanger quite yet. I do however want to get the systems isolated to each other with a dual chambered reservoir since the stock core in the manifold is prone to cracking......this way im moving fuild at lower temp and reducing the chance of pressure bleed off between the engine system and intercooler system
A really interesting thought, and a great idea! However, short of a cool-can I don't think it's possible. Well, no... I don't think it's practical. If in fact you could cool down more with less power draw than you require I think that's a violation of the conservation of energy laws of physics. So can you? Yes. I don't think you can do it and net more power out then it took to do cool it.

That's a really fast knee jerk I THINK! (geez, I've had to say that twice in about 10 minutes now. Getting old I guess). Casey, I might really be full of shite there, so keep looking at it!

Meanwhile when I get back and start talking about performance implications we'll get into cool can's, chilling the CAC cooling to just about FP and etc for short course racing and etc.. Perhaps you'll have given us more to think about by then too!

Luck to you!

-d
 
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A really interesting thought, and a great idea! However, short of a cool-can I don't think it's possible. Well, no... I don't think it's practical. If in fact you could cool down more with less power draw than you require I think that's a violation of the conservation of energy laws of physics. So can you? Yes. I don't think you can do it and net more power out then it took to do cool it.

That's a really fast knee jerk I THINK! (geez, I've had to say that twice in about 10 minutes now. Getting old I guess). Casey, I might really be full of shite there, so keep looking at it!

Meanwhile when I get back and start talking about performance implications we'll get into cool can's, chilling the CAC cooling to just about FP and etc for short course racing and etc.. Perhaps you'll have given us more to think about by then too!

Luck to you!

-d
Well my concept is from positive displacement super chargers with "ice box" type intercoolers that they blow through. Although I'm sure I couldn't get the BTUs out of such a small unit. There was a Mercedes that used the AC system to chill air in an intercooler once and I have heard of people experimenting but I think the efficiency isn't there. My 1st thought has always been stabilizing the coolant temp supplying the manifold core. This is what prompted me to think about relocating the heat exchanger to the rear to cut down on distance traveled but the down side is losing fluid volume which can help display heat. To truly monitor it I'd have to implement 4 temp sensors to monitor temp differentials. 1 set for the cooling fluid and the other set for air charge temps before/after core. Another variable would be the speed at which the fluid travels to maximize heat exchange.

Overall, my 1st step is going to be changing the cooler core in the manifold because theyve been known to cracking. Luckily (knocking all the wood around me...lol) I haven't had the issue yet. Then I'll isolate the 2 system and insulate all the intercooler lines......then go from there I guess lol
 

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This link from the reference links is a good start:

Yet in a nutshell is amounts to this ( The key differences):

There were question about IAT (the old green) being used with aluminums etc. and the silicate level is a bit aggressive in seals and etc. I believe the net was it was really OK, but it had to be changed every other year to be safe. It can't be mixed with anything.

So then came the GM Dex-Cool standard, (an OAT) but it used 2-EH as an anti-corrosive. All fine, except it was found to attack some things. Plasticize (softening) some plastics and etc.. (Thing GM didn't usually use, but others did). It should not be mixed with anything, and frankly I won't use it.

Then came hybrid OAT's standards (2 really still standing). Noting wrong with either. Europe has water issues (I don't remember the details) and they have to use phosphate free OAT's, while North America doesn't care and includes phosphates as well as lower levels of silicates. The silicates theoretically aren't perfect. but G-05 HOAT (the latter we're talking about) seems to be fine none the less. I believe this what Poo is using, and what I'll be continuing to use. 5 year change interval.

The P-HOATS are basically asian formulations, and they are phospated HOATs with no silicate. The red and blue are, from what I can tell, largely identical and can be intermixed. 5 year change interval.

I believe any HOAT can be intermixed (in north america), and I actually think you can intermix P-HOATs and HOATS too. BUT THAT IS AN I THINK !! !! Check first!!

I'm sure there is more from any environmental perspective regarding the Organic vs Inorganic aspects, but longevity is the key take-away.

Quick and dirty, but hopefully it helps. :)

-d
Ford had a big issue with their plastic intake manifolds failing due to degrigation that was found from the DeX cool type crap. Saw a lot of police cars going through my buddy's dealership back in the late 90s. Another friend that worked at a radiator shop even told everyone to flush the red coolant out of the system or change to a metal end tank type radiator because the plastic tank versions were cracking all the time. I'm assuming all the manufacturers got ahead of the ball finally since pretty much ever vehicle comes with plastic manifolds now days 馃し鈥嶁檪锔
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Post #17, "Performance Implications" has fleshed out now.

It will be interesting to see reaction. Most of it is common knowledge to anybody that has chased performance around, just with a more detailed approach to it. But I've taken those some concepts and extended them, and that extension may not sit well for everybody. Guess we'll see... ;)
 
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