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CLUTCHING Part 3b-Secondary Helix & Pressure Spring Overview

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21K views 15 replies 9 participants last post by  rrose  
#1 · (Edited)
HELIX in SECONDARY Clutch


N O T E:---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THE ANGLES being discussed below SHOULD NOT be confused with the Angle that the Secondary SHEAVES are cut on.(ie. the TAPER of the sheaves). This is a totally separate topic, but I’ll give it a VERY BRIEF description as as a highlighted entry below.


There are a number of different Helix setups:

1)Straight vs Multi/Angle

Straight Angle Helix simply means that there is ONLY 1 angle cut into the cam.
Multi Angle Helix means that there are different and varying angles cut in the cam.(these
are primarily to give a harder shiftout and not lose RPM on the top end.

2)Progressive vs Compound – Terminology Difference, the main distinction is how the
Angles are cut into the Helix.

To order to attempt to describe the different cuts, I am going to use the “S” helix angle of: 66 56 33

A true progressive angle cut would have the 66 degree angle at the top of the ramp and the 56 degree angle at the bottom of the ramp. The angles between the top and bottom are would then be equally divided down the ramp angle.

A compound angle cut would start with the 66 angle at the top of the ramp and stay at that angle for a specified distance down the ramp 33 %, then the degree of angle cut would move rapidly toward the bottom of the ramp ending with 56 degree angle.

There are MANY different variations and/or combinations of the above. Many can be purchased PRE-CUT or you could design your own and have someone like Team Industries(main supplier of springs/helix) make one for you.

Helix Ramp Angle (cut) Picture

Image


GENERAL RULE OF THUMB FOR HELIX SELECTION

Trail Riding – TRUE Progressive – usually faster backshift(low & mid range), smoother upshift, due to the fact that it will stay in a steeper angle longer into the mid range

Drag Racing - COMPOUND Progressive – might accelerate faster, BUT Harder holeshot, normally slower backshift, not as responsive on/off acceleration after you are moving.

GENERAL RULE OF THUMB FOR HELIX ANGLES

The Steeper the angle at the beginning and end of the ramp cut would cause the clutch to Uphift and Accelerate FASTER, BUT, would have a SLOWER Backshift and not be as responsive to throttle changes.

The Smaller the angle would cause a SLOWER Upshift, BUT, should provide a FASTER Backshift

Another way to look at the Helix angles could be to compare them to Coarse or Fine threads on a bolt. If you have Coarse(meaning that the threads are at a LARGER angle) threads on your bolt, it would tighten up faster.
SO, LARGER angles would open the sheaves faster and would requireLESS force.
SMALLER angles would open the sheaves more slowly and would require MORE force.

IF YOU JUST LOOKING for a GENERAL all around riding setup, then probably the Smaller Helix angles would be the best choice.


SHEAVE ANGLE - B O T H….Primary and Secondary Clutches

Both the Primary & Secondary clutches contains 2 sheaves each. A fixed and a moveable sheave. The ANGLE or TAPER of these sheaves is Preset/Determined by Polaris. This determination MAY NOT be the BEST, since this clutch may be used in a wide variety of difference machines. THIS is what BEAN COUNTER’s call COST CONTAINMENT. Basicly we can’t do a thing about this(not entired TRUE statement), but we will not go into that topic in this discussion.
The Angle(taper)of the sheaves in the Primary Clutch is in theory the following:
With the smaller angle at the bottom of the sheave, this should increase the belt grip at
Lower gear ratios, when the clutch/belt contact area is the least. As the belt moves up
Sheaves, the angle is increasing and so is the belt contact area.
The Angle(taper) of the sheaves in the Secondary Clutch partially controls the belt
pressure as the Drive belt is being pulled into the sheaves.


In the RZR, the Secondary Clutch has 2 ramps spaced around a round surface, which I have pictured below.

Examples of 3 Different Helix
1)Top-Regular RZR Stock w/EBS Notch
2)Middle-RZR “S” w/EBS Notch
3)Bottom-RZR “S” Stock w/o EBS
Image


Top View of a Helix
Image

Normally if the Helix is an Off the Shelf variety, the ramp angles are stamped onto the top of the helix.

Closeup Top View Regular RZR Stock Helix
Image

This is a multi-angled, progressive with angles of 65 62 60 58

Side View Regular RZR Stock Helix w/EBS
Image

One will notice the Large Cut Out at the beginning of the ramp. This is the
EBS (engine braking system) Notch

Closeup Top View RZR “S” Helix
Image

This is a compound,progressive with angles of 66 56 with transition point 33%

Side View RZR “S” Helix No EBS
Image

You will notice that the “S” does not have the EBS notch, due to the fact that on this unit, the EBS was performed by a ONE-WAY bearing in the Primary Clutch


The torque is transferred thru these ramp angles and work against sliding buttons that are located in the moveable sheave. The type of angle as well as the degree slope of the angle influence the side pressure that is applied to the belt.
Smaller(shallow) Angles = MORE Side Force(less belt slip)good Backshift,SLOWS Upshift
Larger(steeper) Angles = LESS Side Force(some belt slip at Full Shiftout,MORE /faster Upshift
Now that’s the simple explanation, however if you get into the nuts/bolts of the equation, so to speak, you have to also consider the ramp radius in addition to the ramp angle.

The following link is to an article written by Randy Nouis regarding the theory behind Secondary Clutch. Technical YES, INFORMATIVE-YES, good pics and explanation of helix designs A good read, even though the end part of the article is pushing a particular brand of adjustable weights. Just never mind the sales pitch.


Theory & Mechanics of Radius applied to the driven clutch








PRESSURE SPRING in the SECONDARY Clutch

The pressure spring in the Secondary Clutch has 2 basis functions. The following is an example of how to determine the springs’ rating. The functioning of this spring is quite similar to the one in the Primary Clutch.
Ex. Spring is rated as a 105/185

Image


The 1st number represents the ft/lbs at the Load Height. It is this side pressure that the Primary Clutch must overcome before the belt starts being drawn into the sheaves on Secondary clutch. This can also be called Pre-tension. So a Higher # means that MORE
force will have to be generated to open the sheaves AND more RPM’s are required to overcome the extra Tension.
The 2nd number represents the ft/lbs at the Compressed Height. This rating controls to some extent belt pressure, BUT, more specifically Backshift. In addition, the Secondary spring MAY have a higher rate if Unusually Tall or Heavy tires are being used on the machine. The reason being is that with the above you are already starting out in a Higher
gear and by increasing the spring pressure, you are in fact, HOLDing the Clutch back in a lower gear.

Normally springs are used with higher rates when higher horsepower mandates more pretension.

GENERAL RULE OF THUMB for Secondary Spring

HIGHER rate springs provide MORE belt squeeze and make Backshifting faster.

If you’re into Drag Racing or all out acceleration, then a LIGHTER rate spring should be used, for the opposite reason above.

If you want to increase the sideforce or pressure on the Drive belt, Use a spring with a Higher Pretension and a Higher rating.
However, one must be on guard, as mentioned earlier, that TOO much belt pressure leads to inefficiency and loss of performance/speed.



One should also check the cam buttons as well as the large bushing sliding on the shaft.
Both, if damaged or worn can cause addition friction, causing poor response as well as the amount of time it takes to slow down and accelerate out of a curve.

OK guys, another section DONE. ONE MORE, T H E N it's SHOW/TELL

The Backyard Clutch Tester
Bart
 
#4 ·
Examples of 3 Different Helix
1)Top-Regular RZR Stock w/EBS Notch
2)Middle-RZR “S” w/EBS Notch
3)Bottom-RZR “S” Stock w/o EBS
Image
Is #2 a custom helix?

The RZR comes with a two way bearing in the primary and a EBS helix (#1) in the secondary right?
The RZR-S comes with a one way bearing in the primary and a NON-EBS helix (#3) in the secondary right?

Just trying to make sure I am following this correctly....

And if that is correct, what happens if you use a two way bearing in the primary with a NON-EBS helix (#3) in the secondary?

Thanks!
 
#5 ·
Clifford,
Is #2 a custom helix? YES, EPI had them in the past for the 09's

The RZR comes with a two way bearing in the primary and a EBS helix (#1) in the secondary right?
CORRECT

The RZR-S comes with a one way bearing in the primary and a NON-EBS helix (#3) in the secondary right?
CORRECT in 09, but I believe the the 10 had neither, SO NO EBS
Maybe some of the FORTUNATES that have a new one can comment:)

Two way bearing + NON-EBS Helix = GET OUT OF THE WAY MAMA:scared2:, I coming down the hill and I ain't GOT NO BRAKES:rofl3::rofl3:

Bart

Oh yeah, heard that's the reason the 10's don't have the ONE-WAY bearing any longer. PoPo had TOO many issues with it.:sad:
 
#6 · (Edited)
Bart, I am still confused concerning the angle on the helix. As the helix ramps are facing down, as shown in the photos above, which side of the angle does the cam rollers ride?
Also, where does it all start? I want to think it is at the top, next to where the bearing is, but I think I am wrong, because doesn't the belt drop down in the secondary, thus spreading the sheaves? If this is the case, then the cam rollers would have to ride on the left hand side so the EBS would work. Did I confuse you? I know I am. I now think it is the other way around.

The more I look at the helix, the more confused I get. I don't know which side the cam rollers ride. I think the left, but I always have more clutch dust on the right, or is it even dust. Could it be from the cam rollers? Now I am worried!

Another question. The first number is the degree of the first part of the ramp angle, the second number is the degree of the second part of the angle, and the last number is the distance in degrees down the ramp where the angle changes...right? Some helixs have four numbers. Would the forth number be an indication that there is another angle change at that degree down the ramp?

Gosh...when will that book get here! I am as lost as an easter egg.
I have edited this post four times now. I think I have done all the damage I can do....for now! Sorry.
 
#8 ·
Bart, I am still confused concerning the angle on the helix. As the helix ramps are facing down, as shown in the photos above, which side of the angle does the cam rollers ride?
Also, where does it all start? I want to think it is at the top, next to where the bearing is, but I think I am wrong, because doesn't the belt drop down in the secondary, thus spreading the sheaves? If this is the case, then the cam rollers would have to ride on the left hand side so the EBS would work. Did I confuse you? I know I am.

The more I look at the helix, the more confused I get. I don't know which side the cam rollers ride. I think the left, but I always have more clutch dust on the right, or is it even dust. Could it be from the cam rollers? Now I am worried!
Roger,
Referencing the pictures, when you slide the helix back into the Secondary, the Rollers slide from the bottom to the top of the ramp cut.
I don't know if this next one is the best kept SECRET or not, but I've been told by a number of folks, that when you reinstall the helix, you outa turn it about 1/4 turn to counterclosewise to seat the helix cam towers on the tension side of the rollers or buttons. SO, I'd say RIGHT side, cause of the rotation of the clutch and the direction of the ramp angle, BUT think of this, when you're going down a hill and let off the accelerator, your are reducing the Torque feed to the Secondary, the sheaves close, belt goes up, bearing return back to the top and GUESS what, Dead Reasoning, rollers are shifted to the left. SO EBS
CLEAR AS MUD:rofl3:, since that's your speciality
Bart
 
#9 ·
No, and I am still lost. Thanks for the tip on turning the helix. I think this may be one of my problems. I did mark the helix when I took it apart, but when I put it back together, it was out 1/4 turn counterclockwise. I contributed this to it being a different cut helix. Should I have forced the helix clockwise, and lined up the X's?

Sorry, I read it wrong. You said counterclockwise. See how confused I am. My gray matter is mush.
 
#16 ·
[/quote]

OK,, I guess I upgraded my 2009 RZR-S to a 2010 then, because I took out the one way bearing and put in the two way bearing. I tested it this weekend and it worked good. Going down hills the bearing did not squeal like the one way bearing did.[/QUOTE]

Tuf-Skin,
You said you switched your primary to a two-way bearing - do you have the non-EBS Helix as well?