[Bullitt427]

800 and Turbo have no chains whatsoever.

900/1000 have a reverse chain

 

[dafish]

800 and Turbo have no chains whatsoever.

900/1000 have a reverse chain

Thanks Bullitt! I'll correct the thread.

 

[dafish]

Summary: Man, I sure wish I could move this to the first post!!
------------------------------

Since this thread carries on for a few pages I’ve edited this post to include conclusions for those that only want the results.

Disclaimers:
This is personal opinion. You may reach other conclusions.

• I no longer consider Mobile or Amsoil to be the lubrication leaders they once were. I will use their oils in the right time and place, but today only Redline delivers Group IV oils.
• Many believe “factory oils for me”. Yet VOA (virgin oil analysis) has shown Polaris oils to be mediocre.
• Polaris PS-4
• 
  
• It’s important to know that the SAEJ300 (engine oil) standard and the J306 (gear oil) standard are quite different. It’s also worth knowing that two different 75W-90 gear oils can have very different viscosities. 75W gear oil, as an example, spans the low side of 10w motor oils, any 15w, and midway through the 20w. That’s a lot of viscosity variance.

Recommendations:
Motor oil:
I use and suggest Shell Rotella T-6 5w-40. I’d rather have a 10w-50 for my turbo, but we suffer from fuel-based viscosity dilution in these quickly. I believe changing the oil every 25-30 hours is the smarter play, and so cost is a consideration. And again, Poo factory oil is easily beat.

For high heat operation in the turbo's I suppose I’d run Mobile 1 15W-50 in a 5 qt container. # 122384.

BTW, I go back and forth between these two, and can make a solid argument for either in the turbo)
Both are under $25 and even Walmart sells them.

Filter:
So long as you'd not using a Fram this isn't super critical. I happen prefer the Purolator PL14610. If I get around to a filter relocation project that will change to something larger.

Demand Drive:
This is a pretty basic hydraulic fluid. Technically I prefer Amsoil’s ATHQT (tractor hydraulic fluid) as it covers all temperature extremes. However, the devil is in the details: Buying Amsoil is stupid inconvenient, and shipping it gets expensive. So if you can find ATHQT (quart) locally, great. Next up is Amsoil’s AUFDQT-EA, and you should be able to get that at any local powersports store.

But I have no reason to believe Poo’ Demand Drive is a poor performer. Also, John Deere’s J-20D or equivalents (available practically anywhere) is perfectly fine. J-20C would be for severe heat use.

Pick your posion, any is better than not maintaining it!

AGL:
AGL is expected to cover three very different Rzr types, and in my mind can’t be optimized for any of them.

800 and related with chain drive transmissions and separate fine drive fluid:
I suggest a low viscosity Manual Transmission Fluid rated at GL-4. I would NOT run an ATF. Research shows they generally don't have EP or AW additives (extreme pressure, anti-wear). Amsoil’s #MTF, and Pennzoil’s Synchromesh appear to be good choices. You aren’t going to use lots, so I suppose I’d spring for the Amsoil if you can find it locally. If not Pennzoil’s Synchromesh will be great.

Want to know LOT’s more?

Synchromesh fluids and GL-# ratings....

Synchromesh Manual Transmission Lubricants

1000’s and related with integrated final drive and transmission sumps, and chain drive reverse:
I think Mopar’s Synthetic 70W80 gear oil is perfect for these. That’s part number 68227765AA. This thing meets MT-1, GL-5, and J2360 specs, so it’s pretty good, yet light enough to not hurt a chain. (That’s a manual transmission oil rating and two high load hypoid gear ratings! Pretty darn impressive!)

Turbo’s and others with integrated final drive and transmission sumps, no chain drive at all, and higher output engines
While I believe the Mopar would work well here, I suggest Redlines group IV synthetic 75W85 gear oil. (It falls on the lighter side of the 75W’s and is a real group IV synthetic.)

All of the above are pretty good oils. Push come to shove I think you could run the Mopar oil in everything and get away with it. I'm very very tempted to run it in my turbo.

What follows is the thought process, results of a fair amount of research, and fellow members input.

 

[Phazewolf]

@dafish any thoughts on using this? Heavy ShockProof®

 

[RWB713]

1. @dafish any thoughts on using this? Heavy ShockProof®

   I run the lightweight shockproof. Hasn’t failed me yet!

 

[Phazewolf]

No idea how I could of missed such. I will get some soon sense my sxs is used and of very questionable maintenance based on what I have fixed so far.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[dafish]

In today's world I have enormous respect for Redline. More than Amsoil and Mobile, although I don't dislike either.

RWB trusting it is a solid endorsement.

I'll call Redline and ask, but they didn't suggest it when I talked to them. My assumption is that it's cold viscosity will fall on the "heavier" side of 75W (something like a 20W engine oil). Probably not that big a deal on a turbo, for it has no chain. Still, it will likly (assumption) not penetrate into tighter tolerances quite as well.

On the other hand we're not making the kind of power that needs that level of shear protection either. So why not stay thinner? Better cool protection, less power loss, better close tolerance penetration. Which is why I just ordered some Redline 75W85 (roughly equal to a 10W motor) from O"Rielly Auto Parts (no shipping this way), as that's as thick as I want to go for my turbo transaxle.

Mind you we're niggling pretty small things here, and if it's working for RWB, well...

My SWAG is the lightest GL-5 approved gear oil is exactly what one wants for the 1000 (The mopar). Given the increased power output of the Turbo I prefer the lighter side of the next step up (75W85). Rich is basically saying he wanted two steps up in cold viscosity to get a LOT more bearing load and hot viscosity.

But it's an intriguing question so we'll see what Redline says.

atb, -d

 

[RWB713]

Let's not give me too much credit here lol... I have not done anywhere near the extensive research you have, I just run what I think "should" work good, and doesn't show to be failure prone, although I do find your conclusions valuable , informative, and very interesting. I actually direct people directly toward your threads when the ol "what oil?" question comes up....I feel you've done a good job at both informing people of good options, and demonstrating just how in depth a simple "what oil?" question can get.

Since I'm here tho, and it's "Stay in Sunday" lol, here's my brief oil thoughts & story ( I don't talk oils much, I usually avoid the topic on purpose...which is also why I'm glad I can just direct people to your threads now 😁 ):

Engine Oil: I ran Mobil 1 Racing 4T (a 10w-40) in every power sports machine I've had since a 2002 Honda 300EX....I never had any failure that I could relate to my oil decision in any way...I'd still recommend it because of that, I have no reason not to. I Initially ran it in my XPT as well, but not running the "recommended" 50 weight always bothered me considering how much heat the turbo puts into the oil, I wasn't overly concerned, but I wanted to run a 50 just to ease my mind...."Boutique" oils hadn't ever been something I bought into much, but after I did about a days research and saw some numbers that I could compare side by side, and read numerous thoughts and reviews from people that at least seemed to know / care a lot more than me....I settled on the Redline 10w-50 Powersports oil....I Order it by the case from Summit Racing with free shipping at $15.95/qt...cheapest I can find it, and yes, still expensive, and probably overkill, but it's what I settled on, I'm confident in it, and I don't have to think about it anymore, so I don't.

But, in reality, my true response when someone asks me which engine oil to run is "A quality oil, of the recommended viscosity, that makes you feel comfortable." The likelyhood of an oil related failure in these engines is very low realistically, provided it is changed at a good interval, and is of the required specifications. I may also add that i feel an "offroad", "powersports", or "racing" oil is beneficial due to the non-regulated amounts of ZDDP & phosphorus since these aren't "roller" valve trains... but again.... I don't have any personal data to actually support that.... just makes me feel better about it.

Gear Lube: Again, I ran Mobil 1 75w-90 in everything that needed a gear lube it since I can remember. Never had a failure that concluded poor or inadequate lubrication. I have no reason not to recommended it. I had no reason to switch this, but, during my engine oil research, I stumbled upon Redline's gear lube selection as well, and that "shockproof" marketing term caught my eye....so I dug into it a bit....it's basically an oil that carries a very high film thickness in relation to it's actual viscosity and flow, more so than anything else I really knew of ( not saying something else isn't out there.... ) Something about it made me like it and feel it to be better for the application, so I ordered it when I got the engine oil as well. They have Heavy, Lightweight, and Superlight varieties.... relative viscosity of 90w, 80w, and ATF respectively... but again.... ""A quality oil, of the recommended viscosity, that makes you feel comfortable." is what I would ultimately recommend. I have no way of specifically proving my choices are better, or warranted for the extra $ I may spend on them... but I'm happy with them, and have faith in my decisions....so I don't think about it or worry about it.

Front Diff: Here's where my story changes lol. When I got my XP900, I purchased it used form a close friend that had already discovered the DDF was essentially the J20 fluid, but he also found that most people concluded that Mobil 1 or Lucas synthetic ATF was an acceptable substitute.... I absolutely hate my local dealer (still do)...so I didn't ever consider buying the Polaris fluid from them... I used Mobil 1 in everything else at the time....so I picked up some Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF and called it good....ran it in my front diff of my 900, and initially in my XPT... Then I discovered something Dave @ DC motorsports said, and it made great sense to me....Unlike the oil you use in your Engine or Gearcase... the fluid in the front diff can actually effect the functionality of the unit....similar to an automatic transmission..but in a different regard. ATF isn't designed for continuous metal / metal contact, especially at higher temperatures, like the armature plate has with the magnet when your diff is engaged...it causes accelerated wear of the armature plate, the rollers, and will actually build a thick black film inside the diff...which ultimately leads to poor performance and failure....which I have had in both machines....after hearing that, and coming to the conclusion that it was indeed accurate and nothing else really disputed that... I bought a case of DDF, and have used nothing but since, and I will be very hard pressed to ever switch from it, I'm sure it ultimately has to be J20 of some sort....but It's easier to pour it out of a Polaris container and call it good lol. A quart lasts me 2 changes, because I drain, fill, spin, drain, fill....but that's about $8 an oil change....changed & flushed every 25 hours....I like it, feel good about it, (better than I ever did about ATF)... so my recommendation here is "Polaris DDF, but absolutely not ATF".


There ya have it @dafish... you managed to squeeze more oil talk out of me than I've given in years, and now I have it posted...so I'll just link people back to it even more lol. I Trust your research, facts, comparisons, and opinions, much more than mine, you have definitely earned the crown of the Oil Guy on this forum!

 

[Max H]

@RWB713 good read!!.... but I'm bored ....can we talk about Grease now? 🤣

 

[dafish]

Thanks for sharing Rich! And the kind words as well.

 

[RWB713]

@RWB713 good read!!.... but I'm bored ....can we talk about Grease now? 🤣

 

[Max H]

HA....

 

[BacklashXJ]

Oh man this is a good read. Thank you everyone for contributing, especially since I JUST rebuilt my trans with new bearings, dual chains, and gear reduction.

I think even though I'm in the "Chain" category, I will run the fluid with higher pressure ratings due to the gear reduction - having dual chains makes me less worried about them. This, plus wanting to do a break-in cycle, and 70 bucks for a gallon of 75W85 Redline is better than the 50$ AGL PER oil changes from amazon.

(also finding out T6 5w40 works in the engine makes me happy since my duramax already uses a ton of it.)

Thank you!

 

[JB in Jefferson]

@dafish

I just saw your reply on Bob's website. FYI to further add a layer of confusion Amsoil is offering an oil that is a replacement for both the DDF and AGL. They are calling it " Synthetic ATV/UTV Transmission & Differential Fluid"

 

[RWB713]

@dafish

I just saw your reply on Bob's website. FYI to further add a layer of confusion Amsoil is offering an oil that is a replacement for both the DDF and AGL. They are calling it " Synthetic ATV/UTV Transmission & Differential Fluid"

Redline also sells a similar fluid and has for a while. You'll never convince me to run the same fluid in both boxes, they operate differently in different configurations.

 

[JB in Jefferson]

Redline also sells a similar fluid and has for a while. You'll never convince me to run the same fluid in both boxes, they operate differently in different configurations.

I agree and i mis-stated the name of the amsoil product that claims it does everything. it is Amsoil ATV/UTV powertrain fluid

 

[dafish]

Redline also sells a similar fluid and has for a while. You'll never convince me to run the same fluid in both boxes, they operate differently in different configurations.

What Rich said!

I get JB agrees adn was just sharing.

To put paid to the "combination oil" theory, if you look at the DD fluid post I've got out here somewhere, I believe I'd shared that in the past Hilliard, the front transaxle OEM, had specified motor oil as acceptable. They no longer do. I'm of the opinion this was changed when it was redesigned to higher HP capabilities (among other changes).

There is also a lot of people out there that will tell you they've personal seen JD hydraulic fluid installed at the factory. Too many to be a story, and at least one from this forum with pretty solid cred.

Finally, JD, who uses the Hilliard in their Gators, is more open about what to use, and they explicitly state not to use engine oil. They mandate tractor hydraulic fluid.

So yea... I had (past tense on purpose) respect for Amsoil. Today I believe they are capable of making a quality product, and I believe some are. I also think they've become market-speak driven and profit oriented enough to be selling mid-tier and/or niche products at high margins whilst trading on what was their good name. Just like Weber is doing with their grills. (damn them). But then Amsoil will not be last company founded on the basis of excellent engineering that was ultimately taken over by some bean counter with an MBA. Who at best made the pursuit of quality a second tier objective.

(yea, I respect those that do and those that engineer and do. I've got no use for pure executives that have never turned a wrench or gotten dirty.)

 

[smoothride]

Thanks for your diligent research, dafish. I'd like to know your (and others') opinions on some fluid options for my transaxle (integrated final drive and transmission with chain drive reverse).

Demand Drive: John Deere’s J-20D or equivalents (available practically anywhere) is perfectly fine.J-20C would be for severe heat use.

I've seen where some folks use J-20C (the regular JD hygard, not the low-viscosity J-20D) in the rear transaxle. Do you think it has sufficient EP and AW additives, and also the required "climbing" ability? Could it have any adverse effects on the metals and seals (e.g. unwanted seal swelling or metal etching)?

I think Mopar’s Synthetic 70W80 gear oil is perfect for [models with integrated final drive and transmission sumps, and chain drive reverse]. This thing meets MT-1, GL-5, and J2360 specs, so it’s pretty good, yet light enough to not hurt a chain.

Did you select this because it's the "lightest" GL-5 gear oil? I've seen that some GL-5 gear oils can damage yellow metals. Do these transaxles have any yellow metal components that could be harmed by GL-5 additives? Also, is there a Mopar alternative? Doesn't seem to be available locally.

I agree and i mis-stated the name of the amsoil product that claims it does everything. it is Amsoil ATV/UTV powertrain fluid

What are your thoughts on this fluid (AMSOIL ATV/UTV Powertrain Fluid AUPT) for these transaxles? I understand that it's quite a bit thinner than the AUDT product that started this thread. Also, it's not GL-5.

Finally, I see you've recommend MTF for units with stand-alone transmission. How do you think it would perform in the integrated transaxle units where you've recommended the Mopar?

 

[yamahaSHO]

I switched over to the AMSOIL stuff as I liked the idea of one fluid. I'm not an AMSOIL fan, so that was not a factor. I have put about 200 miles on it since the swap, with about a 120 of them being out in the Black Hills a couple weeks ago. So far... It feels normal. I'll be curious to see how things hold up.

I will be using this fluid on my daughter's Ace 570 when I do maintenance next week.

 

[sandblster]

Amsoil update there oil's as the industries changes. Your headline is totally off the mark and wrong.