since you stated it sounds like no comp wile cranking....in the past the oil pvr valve has stuck this causes to much oil to stay in the valve lifters and they hold the valves open slightly causing a no start you ned to remve the valve and clean it out and make sure the spring isnt stuck also de bur the plunger and flush out the area it mounts in... might not hurt to drain the oil and fill with atf or diesel and start but dont rev or drive for a min or so not long do this a few times then drain and change oil filter and refill with oil this works most of the time

 

Well, that's definitely a plausible solution because all this happened after I changed the oil post purchase. It was low on oil, and filthy when I changed it prior to first riding it, which initially took care of the knocking, but I was burning oil pretty good, so I figured I had some piston slap, which I did, so rebuilt the top end.

The young man I bought it from obviously hadn't done any maintenance to this machine judging by what the piston's, cylinder, air filter, air canister, and oil looked like when I tore it down. In fact, it was knocking badly when I got it from him and he claimed there was a top end problem and he had neither the time or funds or skill to fix it. I asked him when the last time he had changed the oil, and he couldn't recall. I also asked him what kind of riding he did, he said mostly gravel travel, trail, and a lot of mud. He had the belt housing snorkeled and not the engine air intake, not very bright. And it wasn't even water tight what he had done, I put it all back to stock intake and belt housing ventilation. He also had two filter rings inside the air box can, which I'm sure the one stuck inside there was off an old filter, and his new filter he stuck in there had one on it also. So there's no doubt the gravel travel, and the air box not being sealed because of two filter rings in the air box aided in the piston and cylinder wear I found.

Thanks for the help, I'll do that today for sure.

I have about 20 minutes of break in time left for the new top end, and I do still have the break in oil in it. And I did prime the engine according to the manual's procedure. The oil pressure in these machines stink anyway. I think I'll just drain the break in oil, make sure it drains completely out, and put in the oil I normally run with a new filter. Thanks so much, that helps, I'll definitely try that.

 

Ok, so I re-read what you wrote. Obviously you're not just suggesting just changing the oil. Sorry, it's 230am, a little blurry eyed.

So you're suggesting I tear the top end down to the crankcase, get the oil out of the hydraulic lifters, and then de-bur the push rod's and make sure they are seating correctly in the lifters? Too much oil in the lifter is pushing up the push rod, rocker arm and holding the valve open? And that's causing my starting issue? Also sounds plausible, since all this started after I changed the oil initially.

My next question would be why was this happening before I rebuilt the top end? All I did prior to this problem was change the oil to Dumande Tech and a new oil and air filter. I put exactly the amount of oil in according to the service manual?

I'm assuming you're talking about the Oil Pressure Relief Valve is what you're calling the PVR? I think we're on the same page, just trying to get our lingo synched here. So if the PVR is stuck and is over oiling the hydraulic lifter's which in turn raises the push rod, pushing down on the rocker arm, which opens the valve a spell, how is tearing it down and removing that oil going to fix it? I guess what I'm asking is if I do all that, what's to prevent the PVR from sticking again and doing the same thing? Shouldn't I do something about the oil PVR so it doesn't keep happening? And the next question would be, why is it so sporadic? Why doesn't it do it all the time? It's happened 3 times out of I'd say 15 or more running operations. But it's definitely an inconvenience and I want it fixed. How do I fix the Oil PRV sticking? Just buy a new one I suppose? Looks like I have to pull the crankcase to service the oil pump and such according to what I'm looking at in the manual. I'll read some more in the manual and see what it says for a remedy for sticking Oil Pressure Relief Valve.

All it says basically is that if the Oil PRV is installed incorrectly, oil pressure and oil priming problems could occur. Just says to pull it out and check for obstructions and blow it out, nothing about when/if to replace it. I'll ask the mechanic at the dealer and see what he says. He's a gear head and really cool about spending time answering questions.

My next step besides changing the oil will be to pull out that Oil PRV and inspect it for wear or obstructions and see what that does for me.

Thanks again, that narrows it down a definite possibility, which is more answers than I had before today. I've definitely checked everything electrically for certain. Still might have a throttle body issue, but gonna replace that sliced blow by hose and get rid of that air leakage and see what that does for that issue.

Thanks again.

 

In the first post it states like it has no compression. Have you ran a compression test on it? If so what are the numbers. Have you looked down the throttle body? From what it sounds like the engine might be dusted. Also the slit in the breather hose is normal and should be left alone.

 

I did a compression check after top end rebuild, can't remember the numbers off the top of my head, I wrote them down in the service manual at home, but I'm at work, but I know it was within spec directly after rebuild top end.

Look down the throttle body? What am I looking at and for? Can you be a little more specific please?

Engine might be dusted? Are you thinking the engine is bad? Not sure what that statement means?

Didnt know the slit in the breather hose was normal, wondered why it was marked with white marking, I know I didnt do that, thought that was odd, thanks.

Thanks for the help, need a bit more explanation on your terms and sentences please.

 

Well it sounded like the machine was used and abused prior to you ownership. You are looking to see how clean the throttle body is. If there was a leak in the air filtration system or the hoses for the air cleaner, dust can get in. Dusted mean that enough dust has entered the engine to cause damage to the cylinders and pistons and usually low compression will show that. As for the slit in the breather hose I have not received a clear answer for it. I would still suggest redoing the compression test when the machine is acting up. You may have a valve hanging up, lifters sticking etc.

 

The oil pressure reief is a little dowel pin. When it sticks you over pressurize the filter and can blow a filter o-ring. The vale is located directly above the filter onthe 800. Remove the 15mm bolt and use a pencil magnet to retrieve the spring and the dowel pin. Use very fine emery cloth or scotch bright and polish the pim. Use a fine brass gun cleaning brush to clean out the bore. Make sure to put the pin in with the tapered end first. Fire it up and give it a try,

 

Sndnsno, thanks for the feeback my friend.

I did find the Oil PRV picture, location, and info in my service manual. I'm contemplating between buying a new Oil PRV, or going with an aftermarket oil pressure boosting valve set up? Not sure because I 've read lots of threads on here about people having mass problems with those also , but mostly on XP's

 

N0OSV,

I completely tore down the whole top end all the way back to the air box and took all those parts to my garage at work and cleaned them with either solvent and wire brush(metal parts minus sensors), or hot washed and plastic brushed them(minus sensors) and then put it all back together. I didnt hotwash the throttle body assy because i didnt want to compromise the TPS in any way, but I did clean it very well.

I did have a lot of cylinder wear and piston scoring due to the "dust" getting into the engine because the air filter could not have been sealed up tightly in the air box because the kid had two filter rings in the air box when I changed the air filter. I was thinking I described all that in one of my threads, perhaps I didnt. But yes sir, there was significant piston and cylinder damage, thats why I rebuilt the top end with all that I put it back together with.

Yea, not sure about that slit in the breather hose is for? Guess so if u break an o-ring or piston land, you dont flood the engine intake with a bunch of oil forced into your air box? I suppose it could also be so you dont build up pressure from the valve cover in the air box, and also so the blow by has an additional avenue to take rather than contaminating your air filter? Not really sure?

 

I've read somewhere on another thread that the slit in the hose is there as an oem precaution. Something about getting condensation built up and possibly freezing in cold temps. It is supposed to let the crankcase pressure vent in case the line is plugged by ice.

 

That makes perfect sense, it is an outdoor machine, and I have been known to ride in snowy, cold conditions. I would think some form of one way check valve would be a more viable option, but what do I know

 

My guess would be, "let's see we could put this nice check valve on here, or maybe just cut a hole in the line" uh cheap wins again! Lol!

 

I know right! For the amount of $ some of these machines cost , and what they are designed for, you 'd think they'd make stuff a bit more reliable. I know the oil pressure on the 800's anyway, is rediculously low, like 6psi @ idle something like that.

Any of you guys put in a one way check valve on the breather hose?

I assume when people snorkel their machines, they run independent hoses off the valve cover/aka crank case vent hose, and another hose off the air box(or seal it up minus the snorkel) and vent that stuff up to the top off the roll cage? I dont have any plans to snorkel mine, I like to keep dry from the sack up if possible, was just curious.

Anyone recommend an after market oil pressure boosting system, or recommend running stock pressure?

I had a 2011 RZR-4 800 turbo'd with an Aerocharger on it. It was recommended for me to run an aftermarket oil pressure boost set up on it with pressure gauge, but I never did it and it ran fine. Think. I may have changed my tune on that decision.

 

Alba racing has adjustable oil pressure system. They are a forum member. Talk to Nate. Adjustable oil pressure relief valve (PRV)
Also welcome from Blue Springs.

 

Yea thanks. Oh, DUH! Hey Jim, just noticed you are from BSMO as well, thats awesome.

I've been on here since late '11 or early '12 after I bought my 2011 RZR-4 I turbo'd and then lost in my divorce . Bought this 2010 RZR-S from a kid up in St Joe for a steal, now I know why lol. I've put in about $1k so far probably, so I'm still doin ok I think price wise, gave $6k for it off of craigslist. But yea, thanks for the welcoming.

I do know Nate at Alba racing. I bought some CP pistons and a gasket kit from him for my 4seater after our Glamis trip Easter 2012. What an awesome trip that was.

Thanks for all the input fella's, much appreciated.

 

Hope you get it lined out!

 

Not sure how this post got reposted, my iPhone doesnt like the forums sometimes for some reason

Jim from BSMO, you ride at Walters Ranch in Cole Camp any? I go down there quite a bit, we'll have to make a trip sometime. Have some fella's, Tracy and his Dad, from Marshfield, MO that I have talked into riding with me down there. They go several times a year, Tracy's Dad owns a place on Lake of the Ozarks there in Warsaw I think, which is a stones throw from Walters. Walters is 13 miles south of Cole Camp on B hwy. Its an 1800 acre logging ranch Mike Walters family owns that yeagers in Sedalia talked him into letting people ride on it several years ago. Its awesome for a day trip on a Sat or Sun. Ride anywhere you want, camp anywhere you want(except during hunting season, Mike leases the land to some outitting group for Deer and Turkey season) for ride $10/day/person, camp $10/day/person. They have several poker runs and hare scrambles that are a lot of fun. I usually call before going down just to make sure, but on a normal non-poker run or non-hare scramble run weekend, you might have the whole ranch to yourself. It's a pretty well kept secret for us up in western central MO, not many folks know about it which can be a bonus.

 

Brian from KY, thanks my friend. I've put a lot of time into trying to get this thing ironed out. It makes it more difficult when its not a constant problem as you can imagine. But I think I'm on the right track.

I'm gonna try and make it down your way sometime soon. I downloaded some maps for a riding area there in KY, think it was called Turkey Creek offroad area or something like that. I used to live in Erlanger, Florence, and Covington, KY. Used to go to Lake Cumberland quite a bit with my old boss. Beautiful country down there for sure. Cant remember the exact name of the offroad area down in Southern KY

 

There used to be several places, but that was years ago. Within an hour of my house there is wildcat offroad in Livingston now, across I-75 from what was known as kromersridge back in the day. Another good riding area is what some know as slickford, aka "pickett, tn". Getting harder and harder to find decent places to ride without someone complaining. Never ridden turkey creek myself. But if and when you do make down to my slice of heaven hit me up(pm me), maybe I'll be able to catch up with you and do alittle riding. Good luck with your rzr!

 

Sounds like you might be getting some help. I wish I could help, but about all I know is where the gas and oil goes. Good luck Phil.

 

Yes sir Tracy, I sure am getting some good help , these guys on here are great. I think I 've got it cornered, now just gotta stab it and hope it dies lol, the problem that is. I'm workin on it my friend, itchin to get out and ride this silly thing, get some MO dirt on the wheels for petes sake

 

Great bunch of guys and smart too. It's cool to be able to get help. Can't beat free help. Stay at it you'll get it.

 

Amen to that brother. I needed the help, I was pullin my hair out, at my wits end. Gonna go with the aftermarket oil boost kit from Alba racing that was recommended. I've bought several products from Nate off of the forums here, and he's awesome, very helpful and knowledgeable, very good company to do business with...and we get forum member discounts which is awesome as well.

I at a minimum want to know what kind of oil pressure I'm putting out even now. I think what's happening is, when I'm at mid to hi throttle, the Oil PRV valve is sticking open and it's dumping a lot of oil into the hydraulic lifters and then I shut it off and the lifter is full of oil and pushing up on the push rod holding the valve open a spell. Then the next time I try and start it, it has none to little compression. I believe that's what's happening judging by what I'm looking at in the manual, and the great info I've got off of here. Probably wouldn't be a bad idea in the future either, after some good hard riding, to let the engine come back down to idle for a few minutes and get that oil pressure down, and let the oil settle down back into the crank case off the top side of the head. I have no idea how much damage the old oil the kid hadn't changed in Lord knows how long did. My whole oil pump set up might be hosed, who knows, gonna take it one step at a time.

Gonna check that Oil PRV tonight and see what kind of shape and how clean it is. But I'm definitely leaning towards the aftermarket kit. At a minimum, I'm going to put some form of oil pressure gauge on the machine so I know how much oil pressure I'm running so I can keep a closer eye on the issue.

I'll have her up and runnin in no time my friend.

 

Praise the Lord and hallelujah, got that Oil PRV(dowel) to finally come out of there.

Figured out that my intermittent starting problem was indeed due to a sticking Oil PRV (dowel pin). After much reading, and many attempts, got it to come out. I havn't read anywhere in the maintenance portion of my service manual where it states to service this PRV(dowel). I would make a suggestion to all, do this either prior to every ride, or at a minimum, before or after changing your oil. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes to pull the 15mm bolt, washer, then get the spring and dowel out with a pen magnet. If it's sticking, weather open (zero or very low oil pressure) or closed (too much oil pressure causing the lifters to hold open your valves resulting in low compression and no engine start), it can and will be a problem. So I intend to be vigilant in adding this to the list of maintenance items to check.

Tried all of the avenues suggested on here. Penetrating oil in the hole on top of the dowel and soak overnight retrieve with a pen magnet(didn't work), leave the PRV intact(dowel, spring, washer, bolt) and run engine temp up to operating temp and aluminum expands faster than the steel dowel then retrieve with pen magnet(didn't work), take oil filter off and stick 1/4" hose on end of a hi pressure air nozzle up into oil filter housing and apply air pressure to dislodge(didn't work).

As a last resort, what finally got it to dislodge after trying numerous previous methods was to take the bolt, washer, and spring out of the PRV hole, put some electrical tape over the hole with a rag on top of that wedged up underneath the coolant hose, did a cold engine start up (from reading, that's the highest oil pressure time period), revved the engine up to about 3000rpm's 3-4 times, and low and behold, it popped loose. Was able to then retrieve it with a pen magnet. So now, do a little maintenance on that, and probably install the Adjustable Relieve Valve from Holz.

Thank you guys for all the fantastic info, and ideas on how to get this booger out without having to pull the engine, much appreciated.

 

see if you just listen to me it been done and running faster...lol just kidding. but i knew that was the problem... that pin sticks alot goto holz web site they have a adj valve kit thats what i run.

 

Thanks for the help Johnny, as always your input here is appreciated :ride:

 

Did you get it running yet?