Anybody got a stock XP or XPT and a tape measure? Be good to validate these settings on a new machine.

 

No suggestions? Nobody has a stock XP or XPT and a tape measure? Someday when I can go into my dealers showroom again I guess I'll see what I can find out.

I would be pretty certain that if you measure multiple machines at your local dealer you'll get multiple measurements.

 

Those numbers are spot on at those measuring points for 30" tires with full load and crew.

 

I can give you all the info you need on a TOTALLY stock 2018 xpt 2 seat with stock wheels and tires and about 1500 miles
What exactly do you need .. simplify what you are looking for please .
Loaded or ?

 

Thanks Shilo!

Max, totally stock = perfect!

if you can confirm you're preloaded as per the service manual, and then measure as per the picture and tell me what you get that would be super cool for us all. That would be no load

If you don't have the service manual let me know which shocks version you have and I'll tell you what it's supposed to be at.

Thanks!

 

I have a stock 2020 xpt with no adjustment to springs from the dealer, with added 30” BFG’s on 14 inch rims. If I measured correctly I get 14.25 in the front and 14.50 in the rear. Pre load is roughly 2.5 (manual calls for 1.80)on the front and 9.25 (manual calls for 8.62) on the rear. I’m guessing something is slightly out of whack??? New to the suspension game so very Interested in 1) Making sure setup is accurate as it appears I am low in the front by 1/2 inch and high now in the back. No one was in the car when measured however I do have added weight from accessories (Audio roof, bumpers, nerf bars and windshields).


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net

 

I have a stock 2020 xpt with no adjustment to springs from the dealer, with added 30” BFG’s on 14 inch rims. If I measured correctly I get 14.25 in the front and 14.50 in the rear. Pre load is roughly 2.5 (manual calls for 1.80)on the front and 9.25 (manual calls for 8.62) on the rear. I’m guessing something is slightly out of whack??? New to the suspension game so very Interested in 1) Making sure setup is accurate as it appears I am low in the front by 1/2 inch and high now in the back. No one was in the car when measured however I do have added weight from accessories (Audio roof, bumpers, nerf bars and windshields).


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net

You're definitely sitting low in the front. Front should sit around .5-.75" higher that the rear. The stock springs sag quickly after breaking in.

 

All springs, all brands settle with the first few hundred miles of use. One will know the correct ride height by the way it rides. The correct or sweet spot will be the best ride. To high or too low it will ride more harsh. All new machine are to low on ride height. This has all been learned by experience. Also set ride height with little extra weight on machine. With a full load in storage box, ride hight measured low. Set it back to suggest height, rode horribly. Lowered it after first short ride. Made a big difference. Again, you will know the correct height by how it rides. Go by that more then measurement at times. Measurement are a good starting point. The difference in correct height and wrong is night and day difference in the seat.

 

Sanman:

I'm of the opinion Duner has it backwards. Sandlaster is correct, btw, that all springs settle, and in time sag. Still, a 2020 XPT should have been right. I assume it wasn't set up correctly by the dealer. Not a big surprise, right?

So, assuming the method Walker Evans/Dirt Wheels used, and I modified, is correct you're front isn't low, it's spot on once correcting for an actual 30" tire. You did measure with 18 psi in the tires, right?

What is happening is you're high in the back. It should be 13 3/4. You're at 14 3/8 (you measure to the outside of the tube). Turn each side down 2.5 turns (in back) drive it again, then re-measure (you raise, or loosen, the top preload hat).

That should get you close. This is easier if you go rent a coolover spring compressor from an auto parts store. Get it finger tight, put perhaps 10 full turns in on the compresseor and then jack up the from until the wheels lift (not the trailing arms! lift at the frame!). That should be enough to allow you to sping the top hat easily enough.

All of this, btw, assuming the 2020XPT has the same measurements points the '17-'19 have. I don't know that as fact, so you'll have to consider that.

By the way, this should be normal weight in the machine. If you keep a cooler in their full of ice then do so before you measure, etc..

Good luck,

-d

 

To each his own. I've done a lot of testing and can tell you for sure, lower is not better. Lower puts you in a different valving position within the shock. Sitting a little high will make it ride better.

I'm running 32" Terrabites which are on the shorter side, and run 15" in the rear and just over 15.5" in the front, and have found this to be the best overall ride and ground clearance.

People can make their decisions based on real life experience, or theoretical ideas. Their choice.

 

Thanks All! I don’t have my rear box in yet, making that from scratch with 16 gauge + spare tire so loaded will likely be another 200lbs, plus the Mrs and I. Likely will have to turn the WE shocks back a few clicks as well. No riding for us until WI opens up so hopefully we will be camping over a Memorial Day and I can find a “real world” trail to test/adjust. I am a bit concerned about the stock tender springs already being fully compressed as it looks like they may not offer any “plush” factor when all said and done?


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net

 

'18 Walker XPT Suspension Tuning

This thread discussed my decisions in suspension tuning a 2018 WE XPT. Summary - To this point I've: Built my own dual rate setup (read the thread for the decisions) 10" 325lb front primary’s, 8” 250Lb front secondaries In the rear re-used the old front primaries (260lbs) with 10” 200lb...

www.rzrforums.net

Crossover Rings - Some Feedback

SDI's (used by quite a few resellers): I had selected SDI's polymer crossover because it was cost effective, and I expected it to be less noisy relative to a metal one. I also felt the one-piece split design allowed it to fit in some places that a solid would have required shock dissasembly...

www.rzrforums.net

Careful, the guy that wrote that is an idiot. But there might be something to learn in there somewhere.

And yea, if you're adding a few hundred pounds I wouldn't touch anything until you've got a reasonable baseline load established.

luck to you.

-d

 

Understand sir. And I agree vis a vis shaft position and valving results. Still, hard to not believe Walker Evans. But let me draw something out for your consideration before you conclude I advocate "higher" or "lower:

I see a sharp distinction between their measurement points and "high" relative to frame geometry (or low). Now this is an opinion, but I believe the WE measurement points aren't intended to be equal to each other, or to imply "high" or "low". They are just easily accessibly highly repeatable measurement points. And measurement points that don't have a correlation to "level" or "high" or etc.. They are just points in space.

My point is that I don't personally ascribe to a belief that the machine is "Higher" in back, or "Low" in back just because the rear measurement point has a lower recommended number. After all, we don't know that those points are level relative to each other (I doubt they are).

All of which means I'm not suggesting "higher" or "Lower". I'm suggesting WE has plenty of experience in this, and that their method makes sense to me. Does it deliver a "higher' or "Lower" front (vs the back)? I've no idea.

As to higher or lower overal, of course there are those that shove preload in to gain extra ground clearance. That's certainly possible, but most suspension tuners hate that idea, for it costs shock extension travel for ruts, bumps and etc. I believe the general rules of thumb is to allow 1/3 of shock travel to remain in the body for those reasons.

BTW, excesive pre-load also limits articulation, for it you've already extened the shock shaft significantly past the intended point (again usually 1/3 of shaft travel) you've not much shaft travel left.

Either way best of luck to you.

-d

 

So we're clear, I believe Polaris says higher in front because the front measuring point does angle upwards from the rear measuring point. So "higher" in the front would result in the car sitting level. I used higher just as a term for larger measurement if that makes any sense.

 

For certain Poo makes this harder, if for no other reason than Polaris doesn't have similar measurement points in their manuals. They do everything based on spring top of shock down.

Best of luck to you,
-d

 

I'm sure not taking that bet!!

But I'll try to stop by a dealer soon, and I'll be with 3 stock machines this weekend, so...

 

Measure new machine at the dealer will only show they are all set to low from factory. Dealer is suppose to adjust the ride hight. None do. They are too low, again, I know this from experience. Adjust them up to correct ride height makes a world of difference in ride quality.

 

Yep. Another reason I likeu the walker / dirt wheels approach. It worked with sagging springs and loaded cars.

atb. -d

 

Here's a video showing the measurement points again.
https://youtu.be/YX26p4ltlvU

 

Since there’s so many variations in tire heights, I’ve always wondered why places that sell spring kits don’t have you measure the eye to eye length or amount visible shaft? It seems like it would be way more consistent across the board telling people “your front shocks at ride height should be 19” center to center”.

On that note, does know what the recommended amount of down travel to have is? It would super easy to calculate what the eye to eye length should be when setting ride height.

 

This is a great idea. I am just sitting here trying to find what the true diameter of stock tires are. I sold mine before measuring. I don't know if they were true 29" or not.

 

Nearly:

29" bighorns, at factory air pressure, are so close to 29" you can use that.

 

The thing is.... ride height numbers are just a starting point they are not exact. The correct amount of preload / ride height is a adjustment and it needs to be tuned depending on many factors ..mainly the type of riding you do.
To get it perfected it must be tested and it can take a lot of time .

The best preload settings will also be different (for example) if you go from high speed desert/ dunes... to slower sharp edge rocky trails at slower speeds , other aspects such as loaded weight will require a change.

Personally I find that ST ride height settings are a little tall or stiff. This last weekend I adjusted my preload collars out in the sand dunes twice because the first ride out I could feel the front was far to stiff (adjustments were already set soft / open)...and it was at the exact ride height numbers according to ST with 32's.
I have found this to be true numerous times. I think ST gives good advice on ride height in general ..but it is not a one height fits all for every situation. If you are always in similar terrain, driving with about the same amount of weight and about the same speed then one preload setting can work. But for me that is not the case... going from rough trails to dessert dune whoops and jumping at speed.... the amount of preload change needed in the front is almost .300" (on the collars) or .600" in ride height from my desert dune set up to my woods / trails set up

My method is to set the ride height slightly tall offset 1/4 or 3/8" low in the rear in the garage.
Then in the field, I can easily jack up one end at a time , loosen the upper preload collar and then turn the whole shock and spring to remove preload . It is much easier to remove preload then to try and add it using the wrenches.

I adjust the preload collars in .100" increments at a time about .200" in ride height change. Turning the shock and spring by hand removing preload also gives you a good feel for how much pressure / preload you have on the springs and is a good way to get a feel for it / what works best.

 

Snow:

Howdy! Yea, I thought that too, even measured the shaft lengths on my Walkers back when I did my dual rate spring project. That's in my suspension tuning post. The problem is measurement against shaft length become more critical. The ratio from shock to wheel travel is close to 3:1 (from memory). Not that it can't be done, just that you need to be much more precise, and of course side to side variation gets even harder to detect. Basically doing it after the amplification of the suspension geometry reduces the error to average human error rate, while othewise many would not detect error. Well, you might... I'd prolly miss it.

From the suspension thread:
Front: Unloaded shaft travel is 6.25”.
Rear: Total shaft travel available is 8.5", w/the bumper adding another 3 1/4” of (unusable) shaft length.

As you know a general statement is to leave 1/3 of shaft available for over travel, sup I suppose I'd be thinking something along the lines of 4 1/8" shaft (above the bumper) on the front, and 5 5/8" in back.

Don't know if it helps, but that's what I have from my notes....

See ya!

-d

 

Max:

Talk to me buddy. I've been of the position that small variance was legit, but that bye and large the concept of over-travel needing to be allowed in the shock was pretty legit. Sure, we can play a little, and with suspension geometry being what is it that can even get close to an inch of tolerace (+/- 1/2"), but I've been pretty reluctant to think of shaft travel as a tuning point. My thought has been (still is, but you'll notice I'm asking your opinion) that valving is open to tuning, even spring rates, but taking major liberties with shaft travel wasn't a good idea.

And of course we know that as we drop shaft we're getting into stiffer valve rates, costing compliance, while extending it puts us into softer.

So I'm listening, how about sharing your thoughts on suspention tuning vis a vis preload..?

Thanks Max!

d

 

I have to go do some data logging with the new Water cooled Turbo set up before it gets dark ...so this is just the super short version.
When I say I am adjusting pre load for different situations, I am only moving the pre load collars about .300" so it changes ride height maybe .600" but that can be a very big difference . To prove it , just adjust your preload collar height by .300" and you will see it has a major effect.
I am also referring to a true dual rate set up with crossovers , not the stock set up.
If you dont have the correct spring rate you will not be able to get the clicks to make up for it .
Same is true if you dont get the preload / ride height set correctly it will be the same ...clicks and valving will not fix it , it may make it better but not optimum by any means. So the staring point is the correct spring rate then the correct preload for your situation. Then fine tuning with the adjusters assuming your valving is correct

 

interesting... you see a major difference in .6”. Fair enough. when u get time I’d be interested in what you feel u see .6 down vs .6 up from stock factory

yes, I’m dual rate, dialed in as close as its gonna get with stock valving.

 

I get what you are saying ..but I dont feel the change is coming from the valving changes due to a .3" higher or lower pre load collar change...but yes some could be from valving

I am not saying every one is going to feel a huge difference by adjusting .6" in ride height mainly, if you are already on the overly stiff or soft side , Or have a less than desirable set up

But when you really get the suspension set well for you and your terrain , a change in preload of .3" on the collars is very noticeable.
Again , this is all measured fully loaded and settled after driving . Hit a good set of whoops at 50+ for an extended period. Then change your preload collars .3 in the front either way all in one direction from your optimum set up you are currently using and do it again. ..you will fell and big difference . Unless your set up is way off to begin with, or you are one of those guys that just sucks it up and plows thru everything breaking shit as he goes ...I have a couple friends like that...I think we all do ..LOL
The numbers I am using as example are all referring to the front end preload gains not the rear.
Rear is one half the gain and the overall effect is much less as well assuming all is kept in balance

 

Since we’re talking about preload, is there a general consensus with aftermarket springs as to how much preload is too much before it’s suggested to go to the next stiffest spring?

Example, if you have a 250 lb tender spring and need to have 3.5” of preload to get the proper ride height in front, is that good? Or is a person better off going to a 300 lb tender spring that only requires 1” of preload? Can you run 4”, 4.5” or 5” of preload on that 250 lb tender?