James:
You have a 2008 RZR 800 with a build date of 6/25/17 is that a typo and should read 6/25/07? Is there a tag on the diff, it should be above and left of the check/fill plug.

If your RZR has a build date of 6/25/07 then you should have a staked nut on the pinion nut. If the build date on the diff is 6/25/17 then it most likely has been replaced at some point in time.

If there is a tag on the diff PM us with the SN and build date of the diff, we might be able to save you some work.
Les

 

It was a typo. I corrected it. I will check for a diff tag this evening and report back my findings

James

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Picture of the tag attached.

6/14/07 diff build date.
Serial 1299220

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James:
That should have the staked nut on the pinion shaft, they didn't change over to the Nylok nut until mid-year 2008.
Les

 

Would it be worth pulling to check for piece of mind? I have a rotational clunk at low speeds, and it doesn't do it all the time. Definitely coming from somewhere in the back of the machine, as it does it with the front driveshaft removed as well. New axles and no change. I thought it was the forward ujoint on the shaft when I pulled it, it was sloppy. But still did it.

I currently have the motor torn down for a top end rebuild due to it being dusted by a K&N installed by a previous owner. So right now I have good access to get to the diff. Got a heck of a deal on this machine and will still be ahead of the game with what they go for in my area when all the money is spent on it.

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Just my opinion here, but if you already have it torn apart and it's something thats gonna eat at you worring about it, then yea I would go ahead and pull it and check it. All it will cost you is a new pinion seal and maybe an o-ring to check. And then you will have peace of mind about it.

 

James:
If you pull the diff, then you would know for sure it is staked, also you could get a feel of the bearings to make sure you aren't losing a bearing in there. Check of end-play and back lash on the pinion shaft. The only parts you will need for that is a pinion oil seal and an adapter tube O-ring.
3610102, Seal, Oil, Pinion
3234516 O-ring

Les

 

Good Morning Brian, our thought are running on the same avenue this morning.

 

Here is what I found.

Front seal was leaking ever so slightly. Glad I pulled it.

If I turn the shaft slightly back and forth there is a bit of play and it clanks. Maybe a half to an eight of a spline of play. Is this normal?

Now the question remains do I need to replace the nut? Or is where the notch that is in it what is being called the stake?

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Unless my eyes are playing tricks on me it looks like that nut is welded on?

 

If you look at the first picture you can see what looks to be a key way, the nut looks like it was hit by a punch and mashed down into that keyway. I'm not sure if this is what is meant when they say early models had a "staked" nut.

I am concerned with the play when I ever so slightly turn the shaft, it clanks inside. There is no side to side or in and out play in it whatsoever. Thru the fill hole, the gear inside looks OK, I don't notice any burrs or real wear. I'm not sure if this play is normal.

The fluid came out gray, but was thick and had the normal smell, took forever to drain. Has has water in in at some point.



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James:
Yes you have the "Staked Nut" the relief machined into the threads is for the
thin part of the nut to be punched into, thus locking it to the shaft. If you don't have any end to end play or side to side play that is good. There should be a bit of back lash or slack between the gears some where around .005 to .007. Being that the oil looked like it has had water I would pull the side cover off and take a look at the inner bearings. Take care to location and amount of shims inside the case on the bearings. Early cases have an O-ring seal around the case, later ones use a sealant 3-M Ultra is supposed to be a direct replacement for the Polaris sealant. If your ring gear spool bearings are bad then chances are the pinion bearings will be also. In that case a die grinder and a carbide burr will cut the nut stake out so you can get the nut off. You will need a new nut then.
Les

 

I can open it up however I'm not tooled nor schooled on how to do backlash.

Are the seals where the axle slide in replaceable from the outside, per the parts guide it looks like they go in from the outside. They aren't leaking but might as well replace them with the pinion seal while it's out

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James:
Take your feeler gauges and look at the .005-.010 gauges, that is the amount of movement you should have between the pinion and ring gear, if your are is that area you should be good. Pull the side cover and inspect the bearings and gear teeth if they look okay then chances you pinion bearings are okay. If your bearing are not looking good then we have to go deeper into detail.

Yes the axle seals can be changed from the outside, Polaris # 3610146

 

Pulled the cover and everything looks to be OK. The bearings turn freely. Cleaned all the old grey fluid out. Ordered the seals and an oring for the cover. Going to clean it out real good with brake parts cleaner and slap it back together when the parts get here.

For anyone wondering, the diff is really really simple.

I appreciate all the help on this. I can wheel without worry when I get the top end all put back together.

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James:
Sounds like you have this under control, if you need any more assistance just give a shout. I sent you an e-mail with a phone number just making sure I got the e-mail correct.
Les

 

@Pullerguy

After reading about the pinion nut I'm getting stuff together for the fix for my 2014 800XC.

I ordered the spline coupler so far.

My question is, I've been reading about staking the nut. What I don't get is how in the world do you stake a hardened nut to the pinion? Is it actually soft enough to stake with a punch and hammer? Does it have a shoulder on it that is meant to be staked? Or?

It seems to me it should stay put with 200 plus ft/lbs of torque and red loctite but I did read a post about one that still came loose! So, I'm going to stake it for sure too.

Also I guess all I need is a nut, seal and the red high heat loctite? I'm wondering if the nylock nut would be easier to stake also??

Are you still interested in getting s/n and condition of the diff?

TIA

 

RZR Scott:
Send us a PM with an e-mail address, we will send you the information we have compiled on the issue.
We do have a short list of folks around that have built the special tools for torqueing the pinion nut, there might be tools near you.
Les

 

Question:

Where did the 250 ft/lbs torque figure come from?

I was poking round in my Clymer book and no mention of it. Says to replace pinon and ring as a set somewhere in it and it also says replace the whole unit. It's got torque specs of other bolts in the rear diff but not the pinion.

It's kinda funny it has a pic of a broken rear housing with the pinion head sticking out of it under the part that says to inspect it.

Other service manuals of different machines all show the front diff repair but not the rear. What gives? Weird right? Are newer ones a type of transaxle?

Anyway, where did the torque spec come from?

 

Scott,

Tribal knowledge, past down by word of mouth, from long ago.

There is very little documentation on the internals of rear diff.
Below are a couple of comments from RZR Forums threads.

March 18th, 2013: An engineer with Schafer Driveline, a division of Schafer Gearworks, mentioned that the best possible fix for this as a SURE preventative is to order Polaris part number 7547243 (non-nylock nut with longer threads), use Loctite #277, and torque to NO MORE THAN 250 LB-FT.

I think Loctite #272 is better choice.

and

https://www.rzrforums.net/rzr-800-s...net/rzr-800-specific-discussion/178257-rear-differential-backlash-pre-load.html
Per HPD instruction sheet:
"Preheat the case and tap the bearing races into the case. Allow case to cool. Shim pinion bearings for a bearing preload, measured by torque, to rotate with 7 to 12 in-lbs, when lightly oiled, without seal installed. Torque pinion nut to 275 to 300 ft-lb. with Red Loctite.
Shim the right hand spool bearing for contact patch and .0035" to .007" backlash.
Shim the right hand cover bearing for a bearing preload of .0035" to .007"

Schafer Driveline acquired the Dana/Spicer division that originally made rear diff, and HPD designed & sold an aftermarket rear diff housing.

Polaris' recommendation is to remove and replace complete assembly.
That way the "factory trained" mechanics won't need to torque any fasteners above 40-50 ft-lbs. No need to buy multiple torque wrenches.

 

Scott,

Tribal knowledge, past down by word of mouth, from long ago.

There is very little documentation on the internals of rear diff.
Below are a couple of comments from RZR Forums threads.

March 18th, 2013: An engineer with Schafer Driveline, a division of Schafer Gearworks, mentioned that the best possible fix for this as a SURE preventative is to order Polaris part number 7547243 (non-nylock nut with longer threads), use Loctite #277, and torque to NO MORE THAN 250 LB-FT.

and

https://www.rzrforums.net/rzr-800-s...net/rzr-800-specific-discussion/178257-rear-differential-backlash-pre-load.html
Per HPD instruction sheet:
"Preheat the case and tap the bearing races into the case. Allow case to cool. Shim pinion bearings for a bearing preload, measured by torque, to rotate with 7 to 12 in-lbs, when lightly oiled, without seal installed. Torque pinion nut to 275 to 300 ft-lb. with Red Loctite.
Shim the right hand spool bearing for contact patch and .0035" to .007" backlash.
Shim the right hand cover bearing for a bearing preload of .0035" to .007"

Schafer Driveline acquired the Dana/Spicer division that originally made rear diff, and HPD designed & sold an aftermarket rear diff housing.

Polaris' recommendation is to remove and replace complete assembly.
That way the "factory trained" mechanics won't need to torque any fasteners above 40-50 ft-lbs. No need to buy multiple torque wrenches.

275 to 300! Jebus man that's tight! I'm pretty sure I'll only go 200 tops depending on my feelings when I see the nut and pinion shaft. "No more than 250" really narrows it down huh?

Maybe the guys at the factory thought it was 250 in/lbs not foot. That would be about 20 ft/lbs, from my reading that is a typical find. Yikes!

Yeah, if I was a Polaris dealer I guess I would just order a new one up and make plenty of money installing it anyway. Then you get to do it again in a 1000 more miles or so too right?

Now that I think about it there isn't much left of it in a typical failure anyway, might as well get a whole assembly being that the case now has a big hole it it!

I'm sure I'm not the first to say this whole thing kind of disgusts me. If I wasn't able to do this myself I would be pissed.

I just changed the gear oil in it too, used the Polaris stuff. This time I think I'll go 75-90 full syn of some sort, maybe Mobile 1.

 

Scott:
You can do the "Pinion Nut Dance" with our draining the oil. Find some plastic plugs that fit the axle ports, stick them and proceed. You can use duct tape also if you can't locate any plugs. Check suppliers that build hydraulic hoses is a good start for the plugs.
Les

We torque the nuts to 250 ft. lbs. when we do one. Research Loctite Red Thread lock, you will find that Loctite 272 is designed for areas where oil is involved, 271 & 277 is designed for suspension fasteners, vey little oil there.
Les

 

Thanks, going to drain it, just picked up some synthetic Delo 75-90.

Also got the loctite today, 272. I found a socket at Autozone for $11 and cut the end off. At first I was thinking it might not be deep enough but watching your video again it looks like your tool isn't all that deep either, so I welded on two pieces of strap to the socket and will see how it goes. If it doesn't work I will try to find a deep 1 3/4" to modify or maybe add a piece of pipe.

The coupler, o-ring and seal are on the way too. Go figure the only thing I haven't got confirmation on shipping is the nut, guess I should have ordered it from someone besides stupid Polaris

I'm hoping to go riding this weekend since the heat is letting up a bit. Looks like I won't get it done till next week so I'll just cross my fingers. It only has 300 miles on it, I'm betting it will go another 50 or so before I do the pinion.

 

A little update,

Got the diff out and removed pinion nut. It was VERY tight. I had to pull pretty hard on my tools 3 foot bar to loosen it and it went a turn or two to get past the nyloc part. If it wasn't 200 ft/lbs it was close. Just at 400 miles on the car.

I'm still waiting on the new nut so I can put it back together.

I'm in Bakersfield, Ca if anyone needs the tools.

 

RZR Scott:
ow long is the handle on your pinion nut wrench?
Les

 

3 feet. It was very tight. I'm guessing on the torque, 200 is my guess.

Wanted to add if someone else does this job. I used a punch to put a small hole in the seal then a wood type screw to pry on with dikes to pop it out. It came out very easy. No need to drill a hole and make metal shavings to get in the pinion bearing.