[milosusa]

Great explanation again, Mr. Sparky.:ride:
But this pressure voltage table set up is what I am still puzzled little bit.
milos

 

[bblocher]

Great explanation again, Mr. Sparky.:ride:
But this pressure voltage table set up is what I am still puzzled little bit.
milos

The voltage correlates to the pressure seen by the MAP sensor. The PCV sees voltages from the sensor, so you need to translate those values into a pressure reference for the PCV.

Your table would need to be setup based off the sensor you're using. If you use the sensor Sparky mentions, you should be able to copy his work, otherwise you need to find the specs of the sensor you're using and create your own table.

 

[Sparky]

Great explanation again, Mr. Sparky.:ride:
But this pressure voltage table set up is what I am still puzzled little bit.
milos

The voltage correlates to the pressure seen by the MAP sensor. The PCV sees voltages from the sensor, so you need to translate those values into a pressure reference for the PCV.

Your table would need to be setup based off the sensor you're using. If you use the sensor Sparky mentions, you should be able to copy his work, otherwise you need to find the specs of the sensor you're using and create your own table.

To add to Brian's explination ....... The MAP sensor.

This is a Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor. What does this mean ??

The thin milar film of the sensor has an absolute vacuum underneath it. A negative 14.7 PSI if you will. Now -- With 0 PSI of air pressure applied to it -- It registers a voltage and sends this value to the output of the device.

Now -- Apply 1 PSI of pressure to the sensor and it gives a slightly higher voltage to the output. Don't forget -- This 1 PSI is still a vacuum state because one needs to apply 14.7 PSI to the sensor to attain atmospheric pressure. The same pressure thats applied to your skin if you were standing at the Ocean's edge.

The sensor starts it's reading of pressure at absolute pressure. The range from absolute pressure to atmospheric pressure is 1 BAR and the range is 14.7 PSI.

This is the reason a 3 BAR MAP sensor is only good for 2 BARs of Boost or 14.7 times 2 = 29.40 PSI.

Take a look at the 2nd chart in my post -- It's displayed but it is confusing I know. One reason I have a hard time explaning to others the art of Tuning.

Just follow my chart and all will be well Milos -- Stop by next month and I'll go over all this with you if you like .. .. Think Coors .. .. :rofl3:

:ride:

 

[milosusa]

"Tune via Pressure only and I suggest populating the Voltage table this way:
Voltage 0.75 = 48 kpa and the 2nd colum: Voltage 4.75 = 300 KPa. Click OK and your done with this table.

"The Fuel (Pressure) table. Build it exactly as I've sketched in the 1st picture in this post. This chart takes into consideration engine intake operating in a vacuum and also under Boost up to and including 21 PSI. If you want to run more Boost -- I've included the formula's at the top of the chart.

On the Fuel (Pressure) chart -- Select 26 colums. The 1st 4 - are for engine vacuum - The 5th is for engine at atmospheric pressure and the remaining 21 colums are for Boost - At 1 PSI referrence.

On entering the KPa values to the 26 colums -- An easy way to do this is enter only values for the 1st colum and the last colum and hit the Interpolate button. The software builds all intermediate colums automatically. SWEET -- We got this far !!"

Ok that probably when I always think wrongly, for some kind of reason I thought when building the pressure chart the first and last value must match the numbers I enter in the voltage table. But actually they will be different 72.3850 and 244.7639 KPa according to your set up, to match the pressure you want to work with.
But on the end your pressure table under PCV map will show the the pressure in KPa or Psi of boost ? Sorry, if stupid question, with my English I mostly think little differently when reading something, specially things I have very limited knowledge of it.
Milos

 

[Sparky]

Sorry for the confusion Milos -- Yes .. Something this technical is most difficult to get across on a Forum. I much prefer a 2 way conversation so I can evaluate and taylor my answers as the conversation develops. Anyway ......

I see your point of confusion -- You are correct. Build the voltage table and it has no need to match the Fuel (Pressure) table.

I usually build the voltage table for full range of the MAP sensor. Reason -- Only 2 colums are needed and once built I never have to look at again. In contrast -- --

Build the Fuel (Pressure) table for 3 PSI below engine running in a vacuum and 3 PSI above wastegate set point. Reason I don't build a complete full range table -- Easy ........ Build it using all 51 colums and I can't see it on the software screen. OLD Age = Piss Poor Eyesight .. ..

Here's a couple more charts that may be of some interest .. ..

Now you know everything I know Milos -- -- Well ... I may have saved a little something for myself .......... :rofl3:

:ride:

 

[mrw8i]

Very informative thread. Thanks all.

 

[teamhog]

... I love this stuff and I don't even own a turbo..

 

[Damage]

But if the pressure table should match the Fuel(pressure) table.
ie if the pressure table is setup using kPA then the Fuel(pressure)table should be in kPa and not PSI and vis versa

 

[Damage]

Sparky

Can one setup for absolute pressure PSIA or just use PSI or kPa

 

[teamhog]

On a big picture basis it wouldn't matter as it's just a reference that correlates an input voltage signal from the MAP to an output voltage setting for the Injectors.

One of the keys to Sparky's approach is the baseline method and setup that he's able to get a reproducible result from.

The main point being that he sets his lower boundary (it's idles great there every time) and his upper boundary (think safety here) and then it's just a matter of filling in the blanks from there and he lets the program do the hard work like it's designed to do.

(We do something very similar with a product that we've developed in another industry)
Shhhh... don't tell anyone....

Brilliantly Simplistic

 

[danyboy1409]

Hey sparky I had a question on building the initial fuel table. I have my pressure voltage/table/axis setup how you described; setting my idle then adding 3# of injector pulse for every lb of boost. The TPS fuel table is set with all zero's and autotune on TPS.

How long do I need to build the fuel table and drive with this setup before switching the AT to pressure?

Thanks for everything, I have a KT kit for my XP and just switched to the PCV PTi after having trouble with the dobeck. Its already running better thanks to your write ups.

Daniel

 

[jrdelgiorno]

Sorry for the confusion Milos -- Yes .. Something this technical is most difficult to get across on a Forum. I much prefer a 2 way conversation so I can evaluate and taylor my answers as the conversation develops. Anyway ......

I see your point of confusion -- You are correct. Build the voltage table and it has no need to match the Fuel (Pressure) table.

I usually build the voltage table for full range of the MAP sensor. Reason -- Only 2 colums are needed and once built I never have to look at again. In contrast -- --

Build the Fuel (Pressure) table for 3 PSI below engine running in a vacuum and 3 PSI above wastegate set point. Reason I don't build a complete full range table -- Easy ........ Build it using all 51 colums and I can't see it on the software screen. OLD Age = Piss Poor Eyesight .. ..

Here's a couple more charts that may be of some interest .. ..

Now you know everything I know Milos -- -- Well ... I may have saved a little something for myself .......... :rofl3:

:ride:

Bump....great thread!!


NorCal Jr.

 

[Mills]

Good info

 

[texoma]

I have a aero charger kit and wanting to change over to the PCV pti kit. Thanks so much for all the info.

 

[boomz55]

I am finally getting around to switching over to the pcv. I have a 3rd injector kit now and will be deleting the third injector and need larger injectors. does anyone have a set of larger injectors they would be willing to sell?
if not what exact injectors should I buy? best bang for the buck and drop in plug and play. I have looked at a lot of injectors and am not sure exactly which will be the best

 

[FNG]

opcorn:

 

[boomz55]

Sparky, are you out there buddy??? haha
just need to find the best cost effective injectors for my turbo rzr so I can go to my pcv.

 

[medik418]

Ok.
Anyone know where some good reading on how to set one up for turbo is?

Bring up the PCV software on your computer and under the Help tab is the manual. Read it -- Several times. It's not the best source referrence -- Better to have been written in flow chart format to begin to understand how the PCV functions with Boost.

Another referrence is from their web site -- Watch all the instructional video's. There are many mistakes in a couple I watched - But one gleens a bit of information.

Use your PCV and Autotune. There is no difference between it and the PTi version except yours doesn't have a MAP sensor. ALL methods of tuning are the same between the 2 units - So no need to buy the PTi version.

Tuning -- I now recommend instead of tuning via TPS with a Pressure referrence (This is Enabled when you build your voltage table and place a check in the enable box.) -- To tune via Pressure only. No matter how bad you screw up the Fuel (Pressure) table -- Autotune will re-build over time.

Injectors -- For a cheep set you may wish to choose a pair of 72' from an LS2. For a matched set you may wish to select a set of ID72's.

I can't stress enough -- Read the manual ..... Several times. Work with the software to begin your understanding of how this fuel system operates. There is no better piggyback fuel system period -- But it does take a commitment to fully understand and how to properly configure.

Elevation change -- Not an issue IF the various tables are built correctly and take into account one may change elevation. The only exception to this statement is -- As one rises in elevation atmospheric air pressure decreases and one may want to increase Boost to compensate. No adjustment of the fuel system is necessary.

Good Luck --

:ride:

 

[boomz55]

Haha yeah I saw that just looked on eBay and saw a few different injectors and wasn't sure exactly which 72s were correct. Was wondering if there was a brand or a model#

 

[Sparky]

Sparky, are you out there buddy??? haha
just need to find the best cost effective injectors for my turbo rzr so I can go to my pcv.

Well -- Thats a highly subjective question .. .. Best -- Cost effective .. How bout throwing in plug-n-play just for grins .. .. :rofl3:

Best would be a set of ID's. They are not plug-n-play though.

Cost effective -- You mean cheap .. You could go with the set I run although again -- Not plug-n-play .. And they are the long injectors so the rail needs to be shimmed for them. I used the rail extention from the Bikeman kit as I had a spare set of injectors from them.

72lb/h Bosch 72lb/hour 750cc with EV6 / USCAR Connector

Plug-n-play -- Although not cheap .. ..

Those are from Bikeman Performance. I see they are not listed on their web site anymore - But still available if one reads the option section on their Turbo Kit.

These injectors are longer than the stock injectors -- Included in the kit is a standoff for the injector stand and the complete kit is a true plug-n-play swap including the injector pigtail with the correct Polaris injector connector.

The stock injectors are rated at 18 lb/hr. The Bikeman's are rated at 24 lb/hr.

FUN Times .. :rofl3:

:ride: