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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There seems to have been lots of questions lately regarding which rate will be better for people and I recently helped another forum member install a Stage 3 kit so I now have seen first hand, set up, and ridden in both a stage 2 and a stage 3 kits. Stage 1 is the same as stage 2 minus the rear crossovers so I am not addressing that kit.

First off, the stock 4 seat rates are 280 over 335 in the front, for a combined rate of 152, and 160 over 270 in the rear, for a combined rate of 100. For those that don't know, to figure out the combined rate of a dual rate setup you use the following formula:

Spring1 x Spring2 / Spring1 + Spring2

So, using the stock rear rates for example:

160 x 270 / 160+270

43,200 / 430 = 100.465 lbs/in

So for every 100 lbs of force applied to the springs they will compress 1". They are linear so 100lbs=1", 200lbs=2", 300lbs=3", and so forth. It will continue that pattern until one of two things happens, either the shorter top spring is completely collapsed or the spring divider hits the crossover. At that point, the weight of the vehicle is completely transferred to the bottom spring. So continuing with the stock rear rates as my example, you go from 100 lbs/in to 270 lbs/in as soon as the top upper spring binds. Crossovers aren't a necessity but they give you a ton of adjustability. You can thread them way up the shock body and let the entire stroke be soft combined rate travel for slower more technical riding and you can thread them back down for the dunes and have the heavier rate catch you at whatever point you need it to.


I started out ordering the Stage 2 kit which is a 350 over 350 in the front, for a combined rate of 175, and a 150 over 300 in the rear, for a combined rate of 100. It adds quite a bit of rate up front compared to stock (175 VS 150) and gives you better a little better bottoming control (350 vs 335). The combined rate in the rear remains almost identical to stock (100) with a little more bottoming control of the 300 lb mainspring. I added about 1" of preload front and rear to get up to a good ride height and drove it a bit to see how it felt. I immediately noticed that the front end dive under heavy braking had been greatly reduced and it also helped reduce some of the body roll as well. After driving it a little I didn't feel the rear was sitting high especially considering that there was no weight in it at all so I added another 0.5" of preload putting me at about 1.5" total. That weekend I loaded up an ice chest and my wife, my 2 year old son and I went out with some friends that have a RZR. My ice chest is a 50 QT Yeti and it was loaded down with beer, water and ice. It's a fairly heavy ice chest when it's all loaded down. We stopped about a hour into our ride and I walked behind the RZR to grab something out of the ice chest and I noticed that my ride height, that I thought was good, was not as good as I had thought. My radius rods were about parallel with the ground and that was just with my wife, son and the ice chest. I could have added more preload but it didn't take a whole lot of weight to squat the suspension so it would have had to been set up pretty high with it empty. That week I ordered 200 lb uppers to replace the 150s. That helped a ton and I am now at 1" of preload on all 4 corners and I am very happy with ride height for the most part. It still doesn't handle weight that well and I lose a decent amount of ride height with 3 people and a ice chest but I would say it is a good setup for someone who rarely has more than 2 people (including the driver) and no extra weight.

The stage 3 kit is a 350 over 400 in the front, for a combined rate of 186 and 250 over 300 in the rear, for a combined rate of 136. The combined rate in the front only goes up 11 lbs/in and 16 lbs/in in the rear from where I am now It doesn't really go up that much and the added rate really helps support the weight better and isn't as sensitive to added weight of gear or passengers. The 400 lb main spring in the front will also will help a lot with bottoming control which is crucial for aggressive drivers and especially duners. Blowing through the stroke in the front is my biggest complaint in the dunes. I originally steered clear of the stage 3 because I was worried it was going to be too harsh on the smaller chatter and braking bumps but after helping install the stage 3 kit this weekend, we took it on a 15 or so mile ride all on terrain that I used to driving mine on and not once did it ever feel too stiff on the small choppy bumps.

All in all if I could go back, I would have the stage 3 rates on my car and mine isn't that much heavier than stock. I really like the fact that Eibach is open with their rates so you know exactly what you are getting and how much of a change it is from stock. I am not bad mouthing any of the other companies that sell spring kits but I like to know what I am changing and why. The "We tested it and it's the best" mantra wasn't what I was looking for. Ryan's customer service is second to none to back it all up as well.

Hope this helps anyone that is on the fence about what kit to order. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask and I will help in any way that I can.
 

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Thanks for taking the time to explain this in detail ! Excellent job!! Helps with my decision !!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for taking the time to explain this in detail ! Excellent job!! Helps with my decision !!
No problem. Glad it helps.

At some point I will be switching my main springs in the front to 400s and my secondary's in the rear to 250s. I really think it's the best setup unless you have removed your back seat and don't carry any extra weight.
 

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Can I ask where you guys set the crossovers, ride heights and preloads F&R? Oh and compression adjusters just for S&G.
Cool Write up
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Can I ask where you guys set the crossovers, ride heights and preloads F&R? Oh and compression adjusters just for S&G.
Cool Write up
No real right or wrong answers to those questions as a lot of it is personal preference and your application. Currently though, with my car empty, I have about 14.5" of ground clearance in the front and 13.5" in the rear. The Eibach kit doesn't include front crossovers which is kind of a bummer but I will be adding those here shortly. I have my rear crossovers set pretty high right now for slower more technical riding so they only come into play for about the last 1-1.5" of shock stroke. I will run them down closer the divider for the dunes though. I haven't been yet with the new springs so I am not sure where I will run them exactly. My compression adjusters are currently 1 click from all the way soft but like the crossovers, that will change come dune season. I ran them at 12 clicks in the front and 8 in the rear last year with the stock springs if I remember correctly. I am going to have some valving done here pretty quick too.
 

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I only ask because I pieced together the springs of a stage 3 kit in the rear, 250/300.
BTW my front in stock sprung for the moment with the addition of Shock Therapy Crossovers. So most these Qs are geared t word the rear, although I will take any input about the front.
But not having the instructions I went to the Shock Therapy instructions which recommend 13-13.5" ride height in the rear and a crossover setting of 7.5" down from the reservoir hose. At very minimal preload, like 1/2" after collar touches spring my ride height is good but the crossover is so high the upper spring will nearly coil bind by the time the crossover comes into play.
I also found a formula on the Fox websight to calculate crossover height, based on springs and travel and so on, its recommendation was 3" between divider and crossover. Same thing, upper spring would probably coil bind
Really wish I went for a 10" 250 rear upper instead of the 8" eibach uses.
So Ryan how do you set your crossover for the last 1-1.5" of travel and not coil bind the upper spring?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I only ask because I pieced together the springs of a stage 3 kit in the rear, 250/300.
BTW my front in stock sprung for the moment with the addition of Shock Therapy Crossovers. So most these Qs are geared t word the rear, although I will take any input about the front.
But not having the instructions I went to the Shock Therapy instructions which recommend 13-13.5" ride height in the rear and a crossover setting of 7.5" down from the reservoir hose. At very minimal preload, like 1/2" after collar touches spring my ride height is good but the crossover is so high the upper spring will nearly coil bind by the time the crossover comes into play.
I also found a formula on the Fox websight to calculate crossover height, based on springs and travel and so on, its recommendation was 3" between divider and crossover. Same thing, upper spring would probably coil bind
Really wish I went for a 10" 250 rear upper instead of the 8" eibach uses.
So Ryan how do you set your crossover for the last 1-1.5" of travel and not coil bind the upper spring?
In order for Fox or Shock Therapy to give you a recommendation they would need to know what rates you are using. You can use their recommendations as a starting point but you really need to test and see what works for you. If you drive really aggressively, or drive in the dunes where you encounter big G-outs, then you will want your crossovers to come in sooner than you would if you are just trail riding. I have my rear sway bar disconnected so I was able to articulate my rear suspension by driving up on a rock to see when the crossover was coming into play.

When I switched to the 200 lb secondary I did go to 10" spring but the 8" spring is plenty long enough and like you said, you can still run the crossover up high enough to not have it come into play at all so there really is no reason for a spring longer than 8".
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Did the Eibach stage 3 instructions have a recommended starting place for the rear crossover?
Yes, it did but I didn't pay attention to it and don't remember what it was. There really isn't a "right" spot for it though. You need to see what works best for you. What kind of riding do you primarily do?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
WOW a lot of flex, but obviously you said you firm it up for the dunes.
Check this out, go the page 7 for the formula to set crossover.
http://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center/owners_manuals/605-00-109-revA.pdf
My riding is mostly trails in timber, little desert, and going to dunes this weekend.
So according to their chart your correction factor is 0.417. The shock stroke in the rear is approx, 12" so using their formula:

12 x .55 x 0.417 = 2.75"

Again though that is a good starting point but for trail riding you may not need to it come in that soon. My crossover is limiting my articulation/flex in the pic at that point. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
For the dunes, I would say that 2.75" is a good place to start. If you are bottoming too easily, you can start working them down a couple turns at a time until you are happy with them.
 

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Its cool the formula comes out close to your setup.
I have been using anti seize on my shock threads, do you see any downside to that?
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Its cool the formula comes out close to your setup.
I have been using anti seize on my shock threads, do you see any downside to that?
I use WD-40 when I need to make an adjustment and then use brake cleaner to clean it off real good. Any kind of lube left on the shock bodies will attract dust and dirt which I didn't want. I don't see a little anti seize hurting anything though.
 

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Hope this helps anyone that is on the fence about what kit to order. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask and I will help in any way that I can.

Rynomx.....thanks so much for this in depth write up. You answered so many questions for me. I am new to the RZR world and I have been doing spring research for a few days on this subject.

Your advice and guidance helped me decide on the Eibach Stage 3.

Does anyone know the best place to purchase them (aka best price)....??
 
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