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BatRazor
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1,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We the SxS community as a whole, this includes
the ATV community, 4wheels, dirt bikers, even the
mountain bikers. We are always putting down each
others aspect of each others SPORT. We as a FAMILY
COMMUNITY need to stop this line of THINKING. As
a community we need to rethink our thinking.
As a whole we all want the samething. To enjoy our sport.
We need to stop fighting each other. We need to band
together, put A FEW DOLLARS WERE OURS MOUTHS ARE.
I'M SICK AND TIRED OF SEEING PEOPLE HOLDING THERE "BEERS!"
up in the Air while they show how STUPID they are. All the
organization's that are "OUT THERE TO DESTROY US, DOWN LOAD ALL
THESE VIDEO'S". When are we. As a community GOING TO REALIZE THIS.
People need to get REAL, otherwise they will WIN IN THE LONG RUN.
THERE NOT AFFARID TO PUT THERE MONEY UP FRONT. WE AS A WHOLE
ARE VERY LACKING IN THIS ASPECT. When it comes down to it. Really how many
give any amount of money to ANY OFF ROAD CAUSE.
THERE ARE MILLIONS OF US.
IF WE AS A COMMUNITY BANDED TOGETHER, WE AS A COMMUNITY COULD SHUT
THEM DOWN WITHIN A FEW YEARS FOR GOOD. It takes money to get this done.
People need to four go a 12 PACK and donate the money. This would raise
MILLIONS PER YEAR FOR OUR CAUSE! We need to wake-up. These organizations use
the internet to RAISE MILLIOMS PER YEAR. WE NEED TO DO
THE SAMETHING. All one has to do, is look at all the people on this FORUM asking for
help in KEEPING a off road 4 wheeling site open. There are always POSTS to this effect.
There are people. Sadly in there thinking. That want to shut everyone down.
You would all be surprised at the lenghts they are going to. I read a article the other day,
that stated they wanted to even out-law hiker's in the back country!
Why because of the DAMAGE THEY DO TO THE TERRAIN "FROM THERE BOOTS" Get real!
I've read the same thing about the MOUNTAIN BIKERS.
It's been stated in COURT CASES, that they are destroying plant life and animals habitat.
WHY DUE TO THE TIRE'S TREAD PATTERN.
All these groups AS STATED ABOVE give MONEY TO THERE CAUSE'S, TO SHUT EACH OTHER "DOWN"
They need to wake up and realize that we as a community can all
enjoy the GREAT OUTDOORS AS A WHOLE.
So I'm asking BEGGING YOU ALL, PLEASE START SUPPORTING OUR CAUSE
BEFORE IT'S TO LATE.
OTHERWISE THE DAY WILL COME WHEN YOU GO OUT TO YOUR FAVORITE RIDING SPOT AND IT'S
ALL SHUT DOWN! "THEE END!"
I THANK YOU ALL FOR READING AND LISTENING TO MY RANT'S.
I JUST DON'T WANT TO BE SHUT OUT OF THE GREAT OUTDOORS.
BEING DISABLED AND A VETERAN, MY RZR IS MY LIFE LINE TO ENJOY
THE GREAT OUTDOORS. WITHOUT IT I WOULD BE VERY LIMITED IN ENJOYING THIS ASPECT OF A
GREAT SPORT THAT WE ALL LOVE.
FOR THE ONES THAT WANT TO FLAME ME, SO BE IT.
FOR YOU WILL BE THE LOSER'S IN THE END.
THANKS Tim
 

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Public Lands Advocate
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1,335 Posts

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BatRazor
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1,323 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Guys. I'll be joining several cause's.
Then I'll post in my profile. Wife thinks like I do.
Hope to get some stickers for the RZR to show
my support.
Tim
 

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Geezer with Joey
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519 Posts
Leo...Did you join the BlueRibbon Coalition?
 

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How many here are aware of whats going on?
Everybody know about the White House land grab Obama tried to make behind closed doors they are trying to lock up approximately 13 million acres of land that will have NO OHV ACCESS.

If you haven't read about it here is a link to the White House land grab its easy reading if you do anything off road you should be aware of this Congressional Western Caucus

On that page their is also a link for the LEAKED internal document showing what they were trying to do http://robbishop.house.gov/UploadedFiles/states_for_designation.pdf

Then they found out their was 14 PAGES missing from the document so they put in a request for the 14 missing pages it took more than 5 months for them to give them up read the update here Congressional Western Caucus

When your reading that please note this important note ""shows that the Administration is constructing a new management structure without the approval of Congress.""

without the approval of Congress
without the approval of Congress
without the approval of Congress

Do you see why everybody is needed and why their is a call to arms? The writing is on the wall they are spelling it out either become more involved than the tree huggers or their going to close public lands for OHV use.

Now they got caught thanks to someone leaking the internal documents they are forced to put land closures up for public review and to allow everybody to comment on them, right now the message being sent to Washington is CLOSE public lands to OHV's the reason for this is the environmentalist are being proactive and are participating in the public review and comment period and the off road groups are NOT, their literally kicking our ass BIG TIME, right now were all losers, when the comment period is up and Washington reads all the data they collected the overwhelming message will be CLOSE OFF ROAD ACCESS TO OHV's.

Go vote, share your ideas and your love for using public lands.America's Great Outdoors IdeaJam I have been spending a few hours a day their reading and voting, I can only vote ONCE we need thousands of votes, we need positive comments to the ideas that make the off road groups look good, right now the anti-access groups are doing a GREAT job of making the off road groups look like shit and look stupid.

If a strong enough message is sent to Washington to CLOSE OFF ROAD ACCESS TO OHV's you can bet they will be closing MORE than 13 million acres and they will be doing the will of the people.

I dont want to over load everybody with info but here is a list of the hot "ideas" that we really need to support The Forums @ Off-Road.org - The Off-Road Network! - TAKE ACTION! Just two minutes of your time to make a difference for Multiple Use Land

I cant emphasize strongly enough how important this is maybe someone else can find the motivational words I dont have and share them with us.

Does anybody remember before they closed off about 60% of Glamis? Before the ASA and before American Sand Association, back then Vince Brunasso the founder of the ASA use to be Pilot Odyssey member he was telling me about them wanting to close about 60% of Glamis in the Pilot Odyssey chat room so for the heck of it I started a post "60% of Glamis Closed" on his very first message board, we had huge response ALL was comments like "it will never happen" "they cant do that" well months later THEY DID CLOSE IT they are still fighting them today to reopen the closed areas, this Land Grab is just as real as the Glamis closure.

The same thing is happening in the Lake Havasu Area I post the info for those trail closures here http://www.rzrforums.net/public-lan...eduled-havasu-travel-management-planning.html
 

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Dang we all have lost so many Liberty's in my life...the list keeps growing
Beach....Hate to say it, but what you mention are basic laws. You have lost no primary constitutional "liberties" at all. It's a big country and it's getting bigger (population wise) by the day. With more people and greater demands on the land and the services come reductions in availability for everyone. The days of freewheeling all over the place are over. The days of opening bank accounts without identification are over, and for good reason (terrorism).

Forest Service and BLM have you in mind. There is no conspiracy to get rid of OHV riding. I promise you this. There will be further reductions along the way, but there may be new opportunities as well. It's not all that bad. Maine has an amazing trail system that gets better by the month, WV also has an amazing system, with lots of states increasing and connecting their systems. Things are pretty good IMO.

There's lots people can do, but it takes leadership and leadership takes time and money. It's a very complicated situation we face. Cheers for bringing up the topic. I couldn't agree more that drunks on You Tube video taping themselves doing donuts on school soccer fields in a really really bad thing....or running through clear trout steams to "clean off their machines", or running through vigin wetlands to see how their new tires work is also a really bad move. There's not a lot of common sense out there unfortunately.
 

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How many here are aware of whats going on?
I don't want to get into a government this, government that discussion personally, nor do I have time to review and rebut this entire statement, but I will try to check it out and respond to some of the specifics mentioned.

I've worked for the Park Service in the past. My wife currently works for the US Forest Service on exactly this.....recreation issues. We know what's going on and what's BS. There's a whole lot of BS from both sides. As always the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There is no organized "Obama takeover" of federal lands against the ATV/UTV public. Period.

For the record, and not that it matters that much, but George Bush instituted the current laws to review and close forest service roads that are invalid. This initiative is called "Travel Management" if you are interested in searching the web. Talk to GW if you want to talk to somebody about road closures. Forest Management Plans are multi-year plans and nothing Obama has done has any impact on anything you're seeing now. Although I wouldn't be surprised if there are some National Monuments created under his watch. Bush has created National Monuments and used the Antiquities Act more than once. They all do it and will continue to do it.

In addition, I'd like to add that sending email to somebody in the US government is pretty much useless. You need to craft a well written letter and address it to the right person (decision maker, such as a Forest Supervisor) to make a difference. All those emails get "stored" in a folder which starts with the letter "D".
 

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Dang we all have lost so many Liberty's in my life...the list keeps growing
Beach....Hate to say it, but what you mention are basic laws. You have lost no primary constitutional "liberties" at all. It's a big country and it's getting bigger (population wise) by the day. With more people and greater demands on the land and the services come reductions in availability for everyone. The days of freewheeling all over the place are over. The days of opening bank accounts without identification are over, and for good reason (terrorism).

Forest Service and BLM have you in mind. There is no conspiracy to get rid of OHV riding. I promise you this. There will be further reductions along the way, but there may be new opportunities as well. It's not all that bad. Maine has an amazing trail system that gets better by the month, WV also has an amazing system, with lots of states increasing and connecting their systems. Things are pretty good IMO.

There's lots people can do, but it takes leadership and leadership takes time and money. It's a very complicated situation we face. Cheers for bringing up the topic. I couldn't agree more that drunks on You Tube video taping themselves doing donuts on school soccer fields in a really really bad thing....or running through clear trout steams to "clean off their machines", or running through vigin wetlands to see how their new tires work is also a really bad move. There's not a lot of common sense out there unfortunately.

I hope the Forest Service and BLM does not take direction from Department of Interior, you better read the leaked documents I listed above and spend some time on the Congressional Western Caucus web site those guys have our back and are pointing out the bad guys.
Congressional Western Caucus
 

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Dang we all have lost so many Liberty's in my life...the list keeps growing
Beach....Hate to say it, but what you mention are basic laws. You have lost no primary constitutional "liberties" at all. It's a big country and it's getting bigger (population wise) by the day. With more people and greater demands on the land and the services come reductions in availability for everyone. The days of freewheeling all over the place are over. The days of opening bank accounts without identification are over, and for good reason (terrorism).

Forest Service and BLM have you in mind. There is no conspiracy to get rid of OHV riding. I promise you this. There will be further reductions along the way, but there may be new opportunities as well. It's not all that bad. Maine has an amazing trail system that gets better by the month, WV also has an amazing system, with lots of states increasing and connecting their systems. Things are pretty good IMO.

There's lots people can do, but it takes leadership and leadership takes time and money. It's a very complicated situation we face. Cheers for bringing up the topic. I couldn't agree more that drunks on You Tube video taping themselves doing donuts on school soccer fields in a really really bad thing....or running through clear trout steams to "clean off their machines", or running through vigin wetlands to see how their new tires work is also a really bad move. There's not a lot of common sense out there unfortunately.

With all due respect either you and your wife are very badly informed or your a member of some anti-access group here to spread misinformation .

I also noticed you replied 7 minutes after my post that gave you just enough time to read what I post and no time to think or investigate.

Looking at your comments about not having time I would quit giving advice about land issues when you dont have your facts straight.
 

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Public Lands Advocate
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It isn't just 13 million acres at stake, it's the entire Nations open areas, they'll do a "one size fits all" set of bills and stick them in an "Omnibus" package, then ram it through Congress and the House without input from the public or scrutiny by our Public Servants and straight up our collective arses!

This whole can of worms was opened up long before Bush or Obama by the 1906 "Antiquities Act" and finally the 1964 "Wilderness Act".
 

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Here are some examples from the America's Great Outdoors IdeaJam

Enhance OHV opportunities on Public Lands America's Great Outdoors IdeaJam - Enhance OHV opportunities on Public Lands
529 votes against this

More Than Enough Wilderness Lands America's Great Outdoors IdeaJam - More Than Enough Wilderness Lands
542 votes against

Preserve OHV Recreation Use for Families America's Great Outdoors IdeaJam - Preserve OHV Recreation Use for Families
310 votes against

Quality Family OHV Time in the Forest America's Great Outdoors IdeaJam - Quality Family OHV Time in the Forest
233 votes against

Preserve OHV use for future generations America's Great Outdoors IdeaJam - Preserve OHV use for future generations
242 votes against

1 for 1: 1 new acre of wilderness = 1 new acre of OHV area America's Great Outdoors IdeaJam - 1 for 1: 1 new acre of wilderness = 1 new acre of OHV area
1082 votes against

Wildlife Are Not Lacking Habitat America's Great Outdoors IdeaJam - Wildlife Are Not Lacking Habitat
549 votes against.

The overwhelming message being sent to Washington is against OHV access to public lands.
 

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Sadly, there are too many people who don't respect anything. Give then an OHV and beer and let them loose in the wilderness and I'm amazed anyone is allowed out there anymore. No amount of words will change them, nor reduce their numbers. Enjoy while you still can.
 

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Sadly, there are too many people who don't respect anything. Give then an OHV and beer and let them loose in the wilderness and I'm amazed anyone is allowed out there anymore. No amount of words will change them, nor reduce their numbers. Enjoy while you still can.
Those are learned behaviors they need taught at a early age, getting adults to change their ways when it matters most is almost impossible, getting them to see they are doing something damaging to land access is completely impossible.

As mention earlier in this thread we confirm our stupidity on youtube with all kinds of ammo for them to take to land access meetings, you know the meetings mostly the tree huggers attend, videos of the off road groups pouring gas into trenches lighting it on fire then running through it with their ATV's their are hundreds of videos on the web sending the message OHV's do not respect public lands, videos that are so rad so cool if they only knew the damage they do for our future access.

The lack of respect for public lands is also validated with ever land access meeting we dont attend and when we dont show up to vote on land access issues after being notified and invited.
 

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Public Lands Advocate
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1,335 Posts
Sadly, there are too many people who don't respect anything. Give then an OHV and beer and let them loose in the wilderness and I'm amazed anyone is allowed out there anymore. No amount of words will change them, nor reduce their numbers. Enjoy while you still can.
We will all see soon what will become of our access.

While this whole mess has been building for decades, this Administration has demonstrated a lack of transparency, desire to reach across the isle and listen to We The People, as have others.

This coupled with idiotic behavior in the OHV Community, OUR apathy, the "green" money, their Lobbyists and shear will of the anti-access crowd can only spell trouble for the future of our recreation.
 

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As mention earlier in this thread we confirm our stupidity on youtube with all kinds of ammo for them to take to land access meetings, ......
You Tube is the worst thing that ever happened to this sport. So many retards, and the number of viewings is frightening.

People on these boards are the heart and soul of this sport. Keep up the good fight.
 

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I hope the Forest Service and BLM does not take direction from Department of Interior, you better read the leaked documents I listed above and spend some time on the Congressional Western Caucus web site those guys have our back and are pointing out the bad guys.
Hoser....Forest Service is run by the Dept. of Agriculture. Nothing to do with this, however, BLM is Dept. of Interior. I've heard about these leaked documents, but would be very surprised if it's all fact. Most stuff one side or the other makes a big deal about is usually 70% BS anyway....just to get people all riled up. Definitely will look into it though.

In the East we are don't have the BLM land, which in the past was usually considered the "trash" land given away for a penny on the acre. You guys out West are in the trenches and have more to lose than us. I've lived in Colorado and California and love both states. Used to ride my Husky WR430 out in California around Lake Tahoe in the Forest. Awesome place to ride. Think the trials are closed now, but not 100% sure.
 
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