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Discussion Starter #1
Bad day, I could smell gear oil as I was following four machines for about five minutes and then we stopped for a quick chat.
I asked the group if they could smell oil too, they said no. I went ahead to rule them out but I could still smell oil. Ruh oh.
Stopped again after one minute and had a peruse of the back of the machine.

Nothing glaringly obvious that I could see but my truck was one hundred and fifty yards away, thank goodness.. but eight to ten inches of snow between us the whole way as the crow flys.

Jumped back in to beeline to the truck, threw it in high and just grinding noises.. shifted to low.. more grinding
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Tried reverse and I had movement! So off to the truck barrelling backwards. Got her sorta lined up to load and tried the forward gears again but they did not heal whatsoever.. hooked a double line up to the truck and loaded. I believe its scattered pretty proper as the axles were fighting me going up the ramps.
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Once on the truck I could see a hole in the case on the passenger side.
Teardown to follow.
 

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That sucks. Curious to know how your were riding previous to it happening? In low and high rpms for extended time? Trans fluid level, last changed, how hot, etc... Trying to see if it is related to cooking the trans fluid.


See: Transmission bearings
 

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Discussion Starter #4
That sucks. Curious to know how your were riding previous to it happening? In low and high rpms for extended time? Trans fluid level, last changed, how hot, etc... Trying to see if it is related to cooking the trans fluid.


See: Transmission bearings
I change fluids, engine and diff every 25h and trans every 50h without fail, sometimes even before if I'm getting close and know I have trips coming.

This oil has 40hrs on it.

Oil was full to fill hole, I don't overfill.

Oil temp.. I have no idea, no gauge.
Outside temp 5C or 41F

Machine has just about 5000 km or 3100 Miles

Mostly only driven in low because I'm in tight trails 80% of the time.

Lots of wheel spin on this trip as I was bucking snow, but I'm never bouncing off the rev limiter.

75-90w synthetic, Agl was used up to 2500km

@SNWMBL Is there a reason your going with Nachi bearings instead of SKF?
I'm about to order through Sandcraft and wondering if I should hold off.
 

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One builder I spoke with stated most of the bearing issues are from loose tolerances within the case and with proper bearing preload even the oem Peer bearings would likely not have issues. I’m detailing my trans rebuild in my build thread with all the information. I would have no hesitation running SKF, especially knowing what I know now.

Edited: After doing my own research for the last few weeks I personally don’t think it’s a bearing issue(at least in most cases). Most trans builders and racers recommend to ditch AGL and run 75w-90 or 75w-140. I have yet to find one race team or trans builder that recommends over filling the transmission, all have told me it’s unnecessary. Personally I think the RZR Forums came with up overfilling out of desperation to find a fix and it’s only a feel good fix at that. I read hundreds of hours of old posts and then started making some phone calls in my own attempt to build the best transmission possible and I believe it’s a case tolerance issue which is why some blow bearings and some do not.

That is my uneducated opinion.

I would actually pay the shipping if everyone who blew a bearing out the side of the case was willing to mail me the destroyed bearing so they could be sent for analysis to see why they failed. The blame on the forums every time goes to “inadequate lubrication” or “it’s a cheap bearing” and I don’t buy that argument anymore, bearings can fail for many reasons and there’s too many inconsistencies. If it was strictly a Peer bearing issue than many more would be blowing holes out the cases and there are guys with thousands of miles on factory transmissions.

My best advice is to call Cryoheat, MRP, Weddle, ect and do your own research and not just do what the forum says.
 

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One builder I spoke with stated most of the bearing issues are from loose tolerances within the case and with proper bearing preload even the oem Peer bearings would likely not have issues. I’m detailing my trans rebuild in my build thread with all the information. I would have no hesitation running SKF, especially knowing what I know now.

Edited: After doing my own research for the last few weeks I personally don’t think it’s a bearing issue(at least in most cases). Most trans builders and racers recommend to ditch AGL and run 75w-90 or 75w-140. I have yet to find one race team or trans builder that recommends over filling the transmission, all have told me it’s unnecessary. Personally I think the RZR Forums came with up overfilling out of desperation to find a fix and it’s only a feel good fix at that. I read hundreds of hours of old posts and then started making some phone calls in my own attempt to build the best transmission possible and I believe it’s a case tolerance issue which is why some blow bearings and some do not.

That is my uneducated opinion.

I would actually pay the shipping if everyone who blew a bearing out the side of the case was willing to mail me the destroyed bearing so they could be sent for analysis to see why they failed. The blame on the forums every time goes to “inadequate lubrication” or “it’s a cheap bearing” and I don’t buy that argument anymore, bearings can fail for many reasons and there’s too many inconsistencies. If it was strictly a Peer bearing issue than many more would be blowing holes out the cases and there are guys with thousands of miles on factory transmissions.

My best advice is to call Cryoheat, MRP, Weddle, ect and do your own research and not just do what the forum says.
I’ll get onboard with your opinion. We’ve done several gear reductions over the last couple months. Being in so many so much lately we’ve noticed there were two transmissions, one of which that had a input shaft bearing going bad, that it seemed the input shaft and reverse shaft would just fall right out of and into their spots in the case. No wiggling no nothing just plop right in there. So I’ll go along with your theory on the case tolerances. We’ve noticed also polaris has japan koyo bearings on the input shafts too. Maybe that has been the case for a while but we’ve never noticed that before. Noticed them on the ‘18 and ups that we’ve done. Everything else has China on them.
 

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I’ll add some more because this is a topic I find incredibly interesting.

I believe the cases and bearing pockets vary quite about. Last year when I had to swap a case half I did my best to measure the case face to bearing pocket depths and they were not the same between cases. Sean at Weddle told me every trans they shim is different. I don’t have the cool tools Weddle does to measure but I will be using plasti gauge on every shaft to check clearances.

There are forum members that have blown bearings at 500 miles, and members with 10,000+ miles on the factory bearings using AGL, some changing the fluid only every 1,000 miles. A very small percentage of folks overfill (I use to be one), if it worked then the guys racing or building the transmissions would make it a standard practice. Mobil1 and Redline techs will tell you that too much fluid will cause higher temps and too much can be just as bad as not enough

There are also forum members that have blown holes in cases even after upgrading bearings.

There is no definitive rhyme or reason as to why they blow out the case. Guys blow out the case, buy a new case half and swap better bearings. There’s no doubt that SKF, Koyo, Nachi, NTN, ect are all much higher quality bearings than the factory Peer bearings, but I think they are a bandaid to a different issue.

One more thought for those that think it’s a lack of lubrication. Almost all of the pictures of damaged cases show the idler shaft bearing failing on the passenger side. If it was a lack of lubrication, then why aren’t the reverse shaft and input shaft bearings going out as both of the shafts are significantly higher? The idler shaft assembly should see plenty of lubrication being sow low in the case.

I totally hijacked this thread and I’m curious to hear other opinions.

Lack of lubrication?
Wrong type of lubrication?
Poor quality Peer bearing?
Weak area of case, bearing pocket too thin?
Inconsistent tolerances?

One more thing to add. The pinion shaft will move up and down(albeit slightly) even with the bearing retainer. The idler shaft sees a large load from the pinion, perhaps any deflection in the pinion gets transmitted to the idler shaft and the case just isn’t strong enough in that area to handle it, especially if the idler shaft is not sandwiched tight in the case and can move laterally which it will want to do naturally because of the helical gears.
 

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Not sure I've heard of Turbo guys overfilling the trans, that was more of an XP1K, 900/1000S thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Outside of case

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Zoomed out

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Inside gear selector cover

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Immediately after separating case halves

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Passenger side case half

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Ouch ... so are you planning on buying a whole new trans.. It seems like there is not much left to be reused in that one?
 
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Thanks for the pictures. This is why I think it has something to do specifically with the idler shaft, all the other bearings are fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well there's one good gear in there! some JB Weld, Bars leak and Dura lube I think I'm good to go!

Honestly I don't know... 4K in Canadian pesos for new, or..

Ballparking..

500 for case half
500 for bearings and seals
Yet to tally the damaged gears... but I may be ahead money wise repairing this one.
 

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You could price bearings locally, these are all the bearings in an XPT trans.

2 ea - 6903
2 ea - 6303 C3
1 ea - 6305 C3
1 ea - 6205 C3
2 ea - 6206 C3
3 ea - 6207 C3
2 ea - 6010 C3
1 ea - 6012 C3

If you weren’t planning on it already, I would remove the snorkel gear assembly and inspect everything inside the snorkel tube while you have it apart.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Thankyou, Ive already copied those from your thread, I'm in there like a dirty shirt.

Just a preliminary tally..
SHAFT, REVERSE 29T
$176.99

GEAR, 46T STAGE 3
$124.49

SHAFT, IDLER 29T
$128.49

GEAR, 44T STAGE 2
$104.99

Total:
$534.96
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Any more progress? Any visible damage to the driver side case half? Snorkel and pinion gears ok?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have yet to remove them. I'll be away for work for a few weeks.
Drivers side case looks good
Passenger side case is backordered until mid March and the 56 tooth reverse gear is backordered until mid April.
I may explore other options for the reverse gear.
 

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Try Rocky Mountain ATV. When I ordered my passenger side case half 2 weeks ago they had 5 in stock.
 
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