Sub'd because I'm in the same boat minus the UTV Inc. springs.

I know alot of people like UTV Inc., and I know Johnny does alot for the sport, but their arrogance really annoys me and I refuse to spend money with them.

I`ve been looking hard at the Racer Tech springs. I`d love to do the needle conversion as well, but the mixed reviews about loosing ground clearance is a big red flag for me, as I`m sure it is for you seeing that we ride basically the same terrain.

 

Have you tried calling Zbroz Racing? Hit up Chris (Vendor) with Zbroz and see if they can help you out. They're awesome when it comes to suspension setup.

Jr

 

Just a FYI, I did the needle valve conversion with Walker Evans and the way they sent them back I have 12.75" rear and 13.75 front after Going on a couple short rides. I think they are settled. I have a two seater, but just saying I think you can get whatever clearance you want.

 

SWT, yeah they can come across that way. I was on here when they left the forum for a while. Followed the thread that lead to it. But I have had pretty good luck with them on what I've ordered. They can be high priced, at the same time you know what your getting most of the time. Heck I had all my tires off and both my rear shocks already removed because I knew my springs ETA. Kind of surprised me when they were wrong. Floored me when I called and he kind of blew me off. Sort of made out like it was my fault for ordering the wrong thing. I was trying to explain they were listed on the site for my specific machine that's why I ordered them. But oh well we will see if I hear back from the message I sent them. If not I'll pay the shipping back to them and just write them off in the future.

I'm sure we ride the same places. I ride more in TN and KY then I do here in AL. Windrock, brimstone, black mountain, ect. So yeah ground clearance is a big deal.

jrdelgiorno, never thought of Zbroz. I'll give them a call tomorrow also. I already have their trailing arms and radius rods. Didn't think to check with them about springs.

 

Bummer about your experience with the new springs, I'm sort of surprised....hope in the end, they take care of you.

You've dealt with Zbroz so you already know they're solid guys and very in tune to suspension, shocks, springs, etc... They'll get you dialed in

Jr

 

That's not a good sign for them about this kind of customer service once again. I keep looking at their web site when I order stuff and pass on them because of reading posts like this. Next will come the big apology only to be followed by another one of these bad experiences. I don't get it. As far as springs go, I did order a set of Racer techs for my 800s when I had it and did like the springs. Not sure if they were worth the cost or not, but I did have a small problem and RT's customer service was outstanding.

 

I went through the same quandary when looking to make my car work better. I started with Racer Tech Springs (Med Rate) and found they made a huge difference in the desert. When I rode in the dunes, I found they were too soft and opted for the heavy rate springs. These too where an improvement but made the car too stiff in the small chop (only my opinion). I then considered going to Fox Shocks (set-up by Cognito) but had difficulty justifying the expense (Even getting a show price deal $2200). I then spent a lot of time doing research and talking to people and decided spending the $1200 to make my shocks better was the way to go. Go with the needle valve conversion. You won't be sorry.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to have the conversion from walker, But I can't drop 1200 bucks on shock tuning right now. Much less be down for a few weeks. Besides Mine really does ride good to me. I don't dune or jump so I'm not sure it would be worth it for me anyway. If my springs weren't sagging I wouldn't be worried about changing them either. The other problem is my sway bar broke on my last ride. No big deal I had thought about removing it anyway. Now with it gone the weak springs are cause way to much lean.

 

I agree 8ball. Hard for me to throw down that much cash on a maybe. I`m watching closely.

 

Hey guys if your just looking to do a spring change & no valving changes you can to it on the cheap. In the rear their are no parts or mods needed but the spring itself. I think the length of the stock spring is either 12-14 inched long. (I would have to measure the lower spring to confirm length) Leave the stock upper tender spring alone and change the lower spring to a 350 lb. The rear spring inside diameter is a standard 3 inch.

In the front I know one guy who tried taking a rear spring (Front & rear springs on the Walker shocks are both 3.0 ID.) Stuck it on the front and said it was better then the sagging stock spring. He said it firmed up the front, but he was then able to take out almost all his compression. It also gave him better rebound which helped level the car out when going off a bump or jump. He called it his "Poor mans shock tune". To improve all 4 shocks he was in it for less then $200, as he only had to buy two rear springs.

If you dont like the idea or spring rate of the rear spring on the front all you have to do is buy a 3.0 ID X correct length X lbs you want. If you want to put the correct 2.5 ID springs in the front or make it a duel rate spring you will need to pull the shock apart to change out the upper spring adjust nut, as it does not come off from the bottom of the shock. Or see if someone like Racer Tech would sell you just the adapter collar they use to convert from the 3.0 to 2.5 on the fronts.

Like I said I have not done this, but know of a guy who did and he said it was better. He did eventually take the shocks to a guy and had them re-valved, which he said made even a bigger improvement over stock. Since I have not been in a XP4 with Racer Tech, or UTV inc springs, I cant tell you if this (Poor Mans Shock Tune) is better or not. But for the cost of two springs I know its going to be cheaper. I also know this is not a substitute for doing the Needle Valve conversion. But for a few hundred dollars and some time you could easily improve what you have.

A 3.0 ID spring from Eibach, Hypercoil or King should be in the $80 range just to give you an idea of price.

 

Lol ok, Been talking to Nick from Utv.inc via their website. Apparently the guy who answered the phone and I guess packed my order were not up to speed. They do infact carry King Progressive springs for a XP4 900 with Walker Evans shocks. The correct springs are suppose to be shipped out tomorrow. So I guess at this point I don't need other spring options. I'll post back here once I get them on and see how they do. If they are anything like the ones I had on my 800 I'm sure they will work great.

FYI I did contact Walker Evans before Nick confirmed they carry the right springs. Walker Evans was very help full and they do sell just springs. You have a couple different options. They sell Eibach springs for 69 bucks each. Which if you just want better springs or a higher weight then those might be the ticket. Now if you want dual rate springs it gets a bit tricky. To do that you would have to send the shocks to them. They have to be took apart and have cross over rings installed for the upper springs. This would probably be the best choice as far as performance goes. In my case I still would have went with progressive springs though just for the fact I don't want to send my shocks off for several weeks. Maybe in the middle of winter or something. This time of year that down time would hurt for us. He also never quoted me a price for this service. If its around the same price as Racer techs setup I think I'd go with walker Evans before racer tech.

Feel free to post up what springs you have and if you like them though. When I did a search on here there wasn't a ton of info. And the only good thread was about Racer Techs setup.

 

8Ball_99. I have my stock springs sitting in the garage. I will give them to you as long as you pay for the ride.

 

Thanks for the offer, but my stockers still work sort of lol. If they get the progressive springs shipped Tomorrow I should be good to go by our next planned trip. I've got almost 2 weeks before then. When I said my next trip was screwed. It was cause I figured if UTV didn't sell the right springs then I was looking at getting racer techs. Even if I would have ordered them before I got these returned I didn't figure I'd get them in time. Seems like guys are waiting several weeks for them to come in. I mean a week and a half is cutting it close on normal lead times.

 

Glad you got it worked out, I am interested in hearing how you like them after you get a chance to try them out.

 

Small Update, Tonight when I got home I had a package just sitting there waiting. New springs are here and even better they fit! There was also a return shipping label for the other springs in the box. I got them on and greased the shock ends while I had them off. I haven't tried them out yet as it was kind of late once I got them on and got the preload semi set. So can't really speak of their performance. I will say they seem much better then my tired stockers. I have less then half the preload on these, but still have more clearance then before. I bounced around on it trying to get it to ride height. I'm sure it will settle a little more once I drive it around. I hope the preload is pretty close as adjusting the rear shocks is a Pita. I have to remove the shocks to be able to use the spanner wrench. So I tried to set them so it sits a little higher then it did before. I figure once they are at ride height and after the springs break in a little it should be about right. I also adjusted the clickers on all four shocks to soften them up. I figured with the stiffer springs I wouldn't need clickers cranked down so much. The rears were at 7 clicks up from softest and the fronts were at 8 clicks if I remember right. I changed them to 3 and 4. I'll just have to ride it around and see how these settings work. Main thing is getting the preload dialed in as that's the tricky one to adjust on a trip. Here is one of the rears sitting beside the stock rears.

 

Cool, can't wait for some feedback after you try them out.

 

Same here, I wanna know how they do too.

 

Sub

 

Subscribing

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Got to ride it around a little today with the new springs on. Felt great!. MUCH less body roll when corning. Right now with the preload I have I'm sitting at 15" in the front at the bottom of my skid and 14 1/4" in the rear. That's at ride height with all my gear loaded in it. Thats about the same height it was before, but only about half the preload I had before. Thats a big deal cause after looking at my rear springs some of the paint is wore off on the inside where the spring I guess was binding up and rubbing the shock. The clickers are still at the same settings I put them on when I installed the springs. I think I could probably back them off another click or two with these springs. So less preload and several clicks softer on the shocks and it still feels more stable then with the stock springs. I'll get a better feel for them once we go on our planned ride on the 10th. So far though I think they will work great.

 

I just read this thread, I wish I would have read it a few weeks ago so I could have helped you out. Interesting, when I ordered the progressives from UTV inc. for my xp 4, they sent me the small diameter springs for the 2 seat xp fox shocks, not the ones that fit the walker evans shocks. So I went through the same problem, where they had to send the right ones and I sent the originals back. My stock springs only had 200 miles on them when I switched them so they weren't sacked out, but unfortunately, the progressives didn't make my suspension much softer as I hoped it would, and all of my clickers are on the softest settings all the way around. They are certainly better than stock, they're just not what I was looking for so now it's onto the needle valve conversion next.

 

Do you run with or without the sway bar ?

 

I posted earlier in the thread that my sway bar had broke on my last trip. That was the main reason for being in a hurry for springs. The stock springs with the sway bar did ok. Although I have had to crank them down several times to maintain my ride height. Once my sway bar broke the body roll was horrible. I took the sway bars off my 800Le and off my 800S. So I know it willl had some body roll. But I really think my stock springs were just sagging and to soft for this big of a machine. I had planned on removing my sway bar once I had gotten around to getting new springs. I ended up breaking it first so the race was on for springs lol

 

Here is what I did and an option. Now I did spend more than the Racertech system, but I feel I have a better system with more adjustment. The Racertech system had no adjustment except preload. The upper coil goes into coil bind. I have adjuster nuts to adjust when the first rate stops. It was a bit more work as well and I probably spent about $700 on all new 8 springs.

I used Eibach's upfront, but the rear 3" coils I could only find at Blue Coil. You can get them all there and will be a little cheaper than Eibach's. You can request other colors besides "blue" as well.

You can call Walker Evans and get all of the dual rate hardware. I had some from other projects and machined down a few things to fit as well. The hardest part is you have to COMPLETELY disassemble the shock and take the head of the shock off to thread the adjuster nuts on. I had to put the body of the shock in my lathe chuck to hold it, add just a little heat (they used a bit of locktite during assembly) and use a GIANT crescent wrench to get the head off.

Here are the factory specs & what I ended up going with:

Factory Front
3.0” 13” 275lb – calculated

Front dual rate conversion
Lower – 2.5” 10” 350lb
Upper – 2.5” 8” 350lb
Combined rate = 175lb (ride height)

Factory Rear
Lower – 3.0” 14” 300lb - calculated
Upper (tender) – 3.0” 3” 275lb? calculated - coil bind @ ride height

Rear dual rate conversion
Lower – 3.0” 10” 400lb
Upper – 3.0” 8” 400lb
Combined rate = 200lb (ride height)

I'm still playing with it. Only have one trip out on them. Ride height ride quality is much smoother in the shop and washboard conditions. I don't bottom the front out anymore at all. I need to preload the rear just a bit more and adjust slider stops. It handles whoops much better.

Also: Walker shocks are just like any other shock with standard shim stacks. You don't need to do the needle conversion to improve dampening on rebound or compression if you are willing to pull the shaft out and put different shim stacks in.

 

I talked to walker Evans about just converting mine over to dual rate springs and they said they would do it NP. I just didn't want to send my shocks off. Its 1200 for the full needle valve conversion And the dual rate conversion. They have to remachine the shock body for the needle valve. I would be willing to bet just the spring setup is probably around 700 dollars or less with them doing the work. Thats also with all the springs being Eibach's springs. Not knocking your setup it looks good. Just saying for others looking on here. Walker Evans will also send you all the springs and collars if you are able to service your own shocks. I can swap a spring out, But thats about as far as I go.

 

I could be wrong, but it looks as if you will coil bind the rear lower spring. Have you checked to confirm you are not coil binding the lower rear spring before using all the shock shaft travel?

At ride height how much space to you have between the rear coil slider & cross over nuts?

 

might be the angle the picture was taken, but there is no signs of the coil binding on the bottom.

Not sure on the distance from the slider to the nuts at ride height, but I typically shoot for around 2" or so. That probably translates to about 3-4" at the wheel of dual rate travel before the lower spring takes over.

I don't claim to be a shock expert by no means, but I have years experience taking shocks apart, changing valving, coil rates, etc. Its RARE that someone on the phone can setup your shocks for you and you like it out of the box, and most often you need to play with them to get the ride quality you are looking for. Everyone's driving style is different, cars are weighted different, etc. You have to be willing to try a few things and it will pay off. The BEST performing suspensions have gone through days, sometimes weeks & even months of trial, error, and testing, not a phone call and credit card. I would rather do the work myself, learn to understand what is going on, and then fix the problem myself.

 

If money is of concern you guys understand that you can achieve the same results, or maybe even better, by just changing the shim stacks right, VS the needle valve conversion? Shim stacks are usually only $10 - $20 bucks. The rear Walker shocks actually use a "flutter" (I think its called) stack (a 3rd set) that is above the primary compression stack. A "flutter" stack is somewhat controversial from what I've researched. I had never seen the use of it until I took my Walkers apart.

The "flutter" stack is a .015 stack. The compression is a .008 stack, and the rebound is a modified, but basically a .010. You could probably do some mixing / matching, remove the flutter stack all together and get better results with NO money spent, just some time and an oily mess on your work bench.

Removing the shaft and trying different shims is easy. A bit messy, but usually only takes about 30 minutes a shock. Make sure you get some 5w shock oil before you start, because you WILL spill it.

 

Might as well had been another language, Bryan! Where do you get the WE shims? Does Summit have these? If not do you know where to get them locally? I'm in the Reno area as well. I might try it and it couldn't get a lot worse, but if I messed them up, well.....about $250 to get them revalved with WE anyway. I know these shocks are valved so harsh that when I've been in sand whoops, they work great and suck up all the bumps but on the mountain trails with rocks etc. that I mostly ride, they are WAY too harsh. I've also checked several times that maybe I went clockwise instead of counterclockwise.....just thinking that they couldn't have been valved that harsh. Let me know what you know. If there's a shop local that could help, that would be helpful as well.

 

Darn it then. I'll probably just send them out. I drag raced for years and local guys would always say, "rebuilding that T400 is actually pretty easy".......and we probably could have found a way, but in the end, it's sometimes best left to those who do it daily. I always sent my race stuff out so that's probably the best idea here. I love the idea of the needle valve kit, but at $1300......I just can't justify the cost to benefit ratio, since this is just a family, "go out riding machine". I think WE re-valve for around $250-300 is a good idea, if that's that's the actual cost. And to be honest, with this being a family machine and with stock suspension valving, I've only bottomed it once on the softest setting, in whoops/sandy area where I RARELY ride, so small to medium rocks and ravines are a much bigger issue. I don't jump it, or ride long whooped out roads so rebound is fairly irrelevant. Also, I ride in areas where I can't afford a break down do to my inexperience with this, and valving something wrong. Thanks for the info., I appreciate your ideas.

 

I'm not a shock guru or at all. But if you crank the preload up it will give you a harsher ride. Out here on the east coast everyone rock crawls and trail rides. Zero sand and not really much open space either. If you figure my hours vs miles on my RZR I'm at 9mph average lol...Guys crank up their preloads trying to get more clearance in the rocks. You can tell a big difference in one that has the shockes cranked up. It does ride much harsher. I know I've played with it my self on my other RZRs. I have trails around my house and I can tell a difference in the ride when adjusting the springs. Also with progressive springs the spring rate does increase as you compress it. So the more preload you have on it the heavier your spring rate is starting at. Or atleast to me thats what makes since.

But I can promise you preload will effect the ride. If you run a RZR at zero preload it will ride smoother then if you crank the preload up to the advertised ride height. If you crank them up to 15-16" of clearance like most of my friends it will ride much harsher then even stock. And thats not because of coil bind.. My coils were binding because I have had to readjust my springs 3-4 times and was pretty much running out of adjustment to keep my ride height where I wanted.

 

Agreed, I can tell a big difference in the ride depending where the preload is at. I ride same places as 8ball and ground clearance is the most important part. I have my preload cranked down with the clickers all the way soft, but I'm also in need of a set of springs. My stockers were sagging and shot at about 200 miles.




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SKeathley, I think these springs are a pretty good choice for our type of riding. Like I said in the other post. I'm sitting at about 14 1/4" in the rear and 15" in the front to the bottom of my 3/8" skid with about half the preload I had before. It feels pretty smooth. You can tell the springs are a little stiffer, But the ride isn't harsh. I'm riding brimstone/trails end the 10th so once I hit a few creek bed trails and do a few rock crawls I'll be able to really see how they do on the slow bumpy stuff. I think with the machine loaded with a cooler, tools, ect. They will do great.