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This is interesting. I’ve got 35’s on my R4 Ult. Almost all the miles, several hundred at this point, are from Moab. I haven’t had any issue’s with the gearing not being low enough. I would prefer the engagement on the clutching was a little lower, but other then when it was right from the dealer and initial break in I haven’t really smelled the belt while riding. Maybe I’ve just been lucky. I was getting about 2k miles on an oem belt in my x3 rs max on 33’s and stock clutching. Have a turbo s 4 seater on 33’s as well and haven’t had belt issue’s either. Knock on wood. Some of the stuff I’ve seen people do in these machine’s I’m surprised they last ten miles though to be honest.


The Pro R is not geared low enough to run a large tire from the factory in rock crawling situations as evidenced by the people in this thread smoking belts. We have a test mule Pro R that smokes belts every week with 35" tires at Sand Hollow. TVMs are for people who run large tires (35"+) and need low gears without lift. The Pro R is already too tall from the factory for hard hard core use because the front drops out so far on vertical climbs. A standard portal will add too much width for any trailer other than a flat bed to transport. You will not find TVMs on any search because they are not officially released.

How to determine your gearing. Jack up the rear of the machine until both tires are off the ground. Count the number of turns the secondary clutch turns to turn the rear tire one turn. In low range a Pro R takes 27 secondary turns to turn the tire once (must have the ignition on in 2 wheel drive). In contrast a Turbo R takes 35 turns to turn the tire one turn. A Turbo S is 20 Turns to turn the tire one turn in low range. My RS1 with a 37 turn transmission and 30% portals takes 53 secondary turns to turn the rear tire one turn. I hope that helps put things in perspective. Here is a video of what a machine with 53 turn gearing can do on 39" super stickies.

 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
I have tried a couple of Bikeman prototype helix's...stock...and the AA helix. I like the AA helix the best. I ride between 1000 and 6000 ft. Bikeman sends you a setup sheet...but if you have problems after their recommendations...you can message me, and I will give you a call for some help.

Chris
Bottom Line Racing
Thanks thats awesome
TVM Portal Killers are coming next year for the Pro R and Turbo R. 33% reduction with 5/8" lift and only adds 1.75" width to each side. No more smoked belts. Pro UTV Parts will be testing them next month.
trying to wrap my head around how it’s possible to have a portal that is only 1.75” wide and only 5/8” lower rotational center than the axle. Seems like the spindle on the portal and the axle would have to be occupying overlapping space. Unless maybe the portal spindle was positioned forward or rearward with respect to the axle in order to get the clearance. If the only thing it’s doing is lowering the gear ratio then re-gearing the transmission would seem to be a whole lot simpler without the disadvantage of compromising, the suspension geometry. The portals would reduce strain on the axles and the differentials. Maybe that’s more of the goal. I don’t get it. I guess I’m gonna have to sit back and watch and see how they pull it off.
 

· craigstumph
2019 ultra low geared Turbo S 4
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Thanks thats awesome

trying to wrap my head around how it’s possible to have a portal that is only 1.75” wide and only 5/8” lower rotational center than the axle. Seems like the spindle on the portal and the axle would have to be occupying overlapping space. Unless maybe the portal spindle was positioned forward or rearward with respect to the axle in order to get the clearance. If the only thing it’s doing is lowering the gear ratio then re-gearing the transmission would seem to be a whole lot simpler without the disadvantage of compromising, the suspension geometry. The portals would reduce strain on the axles and the differentials. Maybe that’s more of the goal. I don’t get it. I guess I’m gonna have to sit back and watch and see how they pull it off.

TVMs reduce the stress on the drive train by 33%. That means less axle breakage, less broken diffs, less broken prop shafts and transmissions. Also steering geometry is not compromized like a portal does. TVMs are 3x as strong as a dual idler portal because they have 6 teeth in contact instead of two. Single idler portals are half as strong as dual idler portals.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 · (Edited)
TVMs reduce the stress on the drive train by 33%. That means less axle breakage, less broken diffs, less broken prop shafts and transmissions. Also steering geometry is not compromized like a portal does. TVMs are 3x as strong as a dual idler portal because they have 6 teeth in contact instead of two. Single idler portals are half as strong as dual idler portals.
yes I said “The portals will reduce strain on the axels and differential”. i’m just trying to figure out how they’re going to accomplish having the input and output only 5/8 of an inch apart vertically while maintaining a thickness of 1.75 inches.
 

· craigstumph
2019 ultra low geared Turbo S 4
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yes I said “The portals will reduce strain on the axels and differential”. i’m just trying to figure out how they’re going to accomplish having the input and output only 5/8 of an inch apart vertically while maintaining a thickness of 1.75 inches.
I will see if I can release pics.
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
I’ve had Bikeman stage 2 kit with the black spring on order for 4 weeks mow. I’ve heard great things about it. I was told I should have it by Halloween weekend. Then each week since I’ve been told ”they just got them in and are ship orders tomorrow“ so far nothing has arrive. I had mine apart waiting for the parts sense the end of October. I just put it back together yesterday with all the stock parts again. I have missed two rides waiting and don’t wanna miss Thanksgiving weekend. I was hoping to find somebody that has clutching available. I understand production delays. I deal with it in my own business. I just don’t wanna be told it’s on its way when it’s not.
My Bikeman clutch kit arrived today. Need to call them I think they sent the wrong secondary spring. According to the setup sheet larger tires (mine are 35”) should use the gold spring. My kit has gold/red Spring.
 

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Looking for a a clutch kit for east coast slow speed rock crawling and trails. Want better belt grip with low rpm power. 2 door running 35” Zillas 1000 to 4500 feet stock power. Not a dune or mud setup. Quieter would be great too. Is there anything available for that? Most seam to concentrate on high speed or quick acceleration.
Check with Duraclutch, installed one in my '17 1000s , works great .
 

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Was on Fueled UTV website yesterday and they have some Aftermarket Assassins clutch kits.

Duraclutch is awesome...did not see anything on their website yet.
 

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I am pretty sure that there will be gear reductions in the transfer case. I know of a couple of people doing prototype testing in this area.
That may be somewhat of a bear to pull that tranny out....not sure how much room you will have and if the motor will need to be moved/pulled....I'm looking forward to the videos!
 

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Someone is gonna start looking at diff specs and figure out you can swap in a toyota or chevy set of diffs with 5:36 or even shorter gears....can't wait to see that too.
 

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A clutch kit is not going to make your Rzr "crawl", it just changes the rpm engagement of the belts. Your best bet is to either go portals, or what I did is change the gearing in the transmission. I changed my to 25% lower in low gear, and 10% in high gear. Best thing I did. Stock clutch, never burn belts
 

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A clutch kit is not going to make your Rzr "crawl", it just changes the rpm engagement of the belts. Your best bet is to either go portals, or what I did is change the gearing in the transmission. I changed my to 25% lower in low gear, and 10% in high gear. Best thing I did. Stock clutch, never burn belts
You did that to a Pro R?
 

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A clutch kit is not going to make your Rzr "crawl", it just changes the rpm engagement of the belts. Your best bet is to either go portals, or what I did is change the gearing in the transmission. I changed my to 25% lower in low gear, and 10% in high gear. Best thing I did. Stock clutch, never burn belts
Agreed but a good clutch kit will be much more predictable then the stock one.....and burning belts with us is generally related to tire size/weight..(or driver error...lol)...I burn belts way easier with stock clutches. My 21 highlifter was probably the worst at burning belts. Every time I go up in tire size, I look clutch kits. We have all done gear reduction which is pretty much a prerequisite on the xp's, turbos, and turbo S.. My son's 2019 xp has a duraclutch....it's a fairly built xp1000, and the best crawling xp I've driven because of the dependable solid low rpm engagement.

Since I have 35's on my pro r, I am looking for a clutch kit now. Really want Dalton or Duraclutch but may settle for the aftermarket assassins for now. Get a good clutch kit and you will see and feel the improvement, especially if you like steep technical trails like we run here on the east coast.
 

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Agree, 35" are very big. I run 32's, and with lower gearing I can crawl about as slow as I want. Never had a clutch issue, but I do maintain it very well. I'm just saying that someone thinking they can go slow and crawl by just changing the clutch they might be in for a disappointment, but I am sure there are great aftermarket clutches out there! Not sure if the Pro-r gear ratios are different than my 2019XP4T? Be curious to know.
 

· craigstumph
2019 ultra low geared Turbo S 4
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Agree, 35" are very big. I run 32's, and with lower gearing I can crawl about as slow as I want. Never had a clutch issue, but I do maintain it very well. I'm just saying that someone thinking they can go slow and crawl by just changing the clutch they might be in for a disappointment, but I am sure there are great aftermarket clutches out there! Not sure if the Pro-r gear ratios are different than my 2019XP4T? Be curious to know.
Count your secondary clutch turns to determine your gearing. Jack up the rear of the machine until both tires are off the ground. Count the number of turns the secondary clutch turns to turn the rear tire one turn. In low range a Pro R takes 27 secondary turns to turn the tire once (must have the ignition on in 2 wheel drive for the Pro R). In contrast a Turbo R takes 35 turns to turn the tire one turn. A Turbo S is 20 Turns to turn the tire one turn in low range. My RS1 with a 37 turn transmission and 30% portals takes 53 secondary turns to turn the rear tire one turn. I hope that helps put things in perspective.
 

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Agree, 35" are very big. I run 32's, and with lower gearing I can crawl about as slow as I want. Never had a clutch issue, but I do maintain it very well. I'm just saying that someone thinking they can go slow and crawl by just changing the clutch they might be in for a disappointment, but I am sure there are great aftermarket clutches out there! Not sure if the Pro-r gear ratios are different than my 2019XP4T? Be curious to know.
Yeah, my son runs 33's which are about 32 3/4 on his 19 xp.(and stock clutches may hold up). I was just surprised at how well the upgraded clutches perform for crawling. It's is literally like night and day. I'm talking about previous rides and my buddies rides....we usually stick with 32/33 on the xp's....one of my buddies has 35's on his Turbo S. First time I did a clutch was way back on my 900s with 30" carnivores (I think it was stock 27 or 28" tires)....ever since then it's been a staple, I guess like power steering, once you have it, you don't want one without it....lol.
The Pro R is geared lower then the xp's. I think it needs a little more, but I'll do a clutch kit and wait for the aftermarket to catch-up.....
 

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My Bikeman clutch kit arrived today. Need to call them I think they sent the wrong secondary spring. According to the setup sheet larger tires (mine are 35”) should use the gold spring. My kit has gold/red Spring.
My kit also came with wrong one also , had to order gold and also had black primary which was nice for crawling but it would engage slightly at idle so was hard to shift. Had to go with orange primary. Hope to install tomorrow
 
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