well if it works as good as you say, you are the man. thanks for the help.

will this map generator give us max hp or max speed or set by the a/f ratio?

 

The version i have does that, but it takes more inputs (like speed) which most people dont have. if the tool takes off i might add that functionality later, but for now i just want to see if it gets used.. i've already got a couple of months into decoding the dynojet map files and the app itself, it'd sure be a waste to go and do all of that extra work if i'm the only one using it..

NOTE: if you've tried to use the wizard today and got an error, Old Ranger(prc) from little rock called today and brought the problem to my attention.. "A BUG" thanks old ranger, i didnt know..
it's fixed now..
i only tested with my logs because that's all i had. if your logs break it, that's a good thing because with that information i can make it work better and be more reliable..
so.. if you break it, let me know and send me the log, i'll fix it and get back to ya.

 

PowerCommander Tuning wizard document
i wrote this up to help better explain how it works, how to use it and how to work the settings.
http://www.extremerzr.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=wicdIgNvslA=&tabid=201

 

Thanks Marty, this is great stuff and great work your doing ... appreciated by all of us, Im sure.
Ken

 

Hey guys just tried the Tuning Wizard and Marty's program works great. Guys if you have a Wideband you should give it a try. This program in my eyes is the way to go, it's better than a dyno and free. The program takes your TP, RPM and AFR and builds you a map. Give it a try and I bet you will like it.

 

Thats what we need in this sport, people like you Marty.

 

I have a wideband, but how do I data log?

 

do you have a wideband commander? if you do it has logging built in. you just hook up a log switch, or do it with a laptop.

 

I keep thinking about the PowerCommander, but have been waiting for the V to come out.

 

I'm new to the Power Commander game so I have a couple novice questions. I have installed a brand new PCIII and had it dyno tuned by a local shop. I have the Muzzy exhaust with th O2 sensor bung. Is there a way to have the PCIII connect to a O2 sensor and have it monitor the a/f ratio? I have the map that they programmed the PCIII with saved on a thumb drive. Can I modify that? Would there be any benefit to using this system since I've already had the dyno work done? Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

buy a wideband o2 sensor and wire it to the PCIII. then let Marty's program write its own map and compare. Dyno machines are good, but no replacement for real world seat of the pants terrain numbers.

 

Thanks Mike but another question... how does the O2 hook up to the PCIII? I know there is a port on the unit but how do I wire it up?

 

not quite sure i have not hooked mine up yet. it should be a wire to attach.

 

Airborne, the PCV will be out for the rzr any day now and for fuel tuning it is a better solution than this. dynojet has access to electronics and code that we do-not.. (it's theirs, they should)
i've done my best to make tuning easy and as accurate as possible. i have actually been using this software for about a year and a half on my rzr, but recently put it into an interface that the average user could make use of.
once the V comes out there are still a couple of holes that need to be filled. first off currently there is no ignition support for the PCV and the rzr, dynojet says they are planning on adding an ignition module in a couple of months, and eventually the plan is to release the V with ignition ingegrated (no time frame for that yet). also to use autotune with the PCV, you must also buy either the AutoTune Module or a Wideband2.
if you currently have a wideband, it will not work with the PCV (unless you have the wideband2, and i dont know anybody that has one yet)

i have a lot of time and money in my Powercommander setup so i plan to use it for a while (at least until ignition is integrated into the pcv) .
there are alot of RZR Pilots out there who also have time and money in a PCIII setup.. I built this tool for them.

Hoover: Mike is right, to make this work you will need a wideband that is capable of logging (wideband commander) as far as plugging into the pcIII you cant do that in a plug and play fashion.. there are two options for plugging them together though. i have both of them so i can verify that it works..
if you have the dynojet lcd module you can buy a cable that ties into both the powercommander and the wideband commander, this will let you log and view data from both sources simoultaneiously. another thing you can do is: if you have the PowerCommander hub, you can tie the data aquisition port from the wideband to the pressure input on the powercommander hub. this is the premise for how i do my semi closed loop setup.

dyno maps are good but again as mike said there are shortcomings..
example:
for the most part when you go to the dyno for fuel tuning, you get 3 or 4 runs. those runs are all wide open throttle.. you may get varying loads from the dyno but these loads will be limited to what is set in..
what you end up with is a map that works good through the rpm range at wide open throttle..
after this map, if you are trail riding or running down a hill or just cruising you will be running in cells (rpm vs tps is a cell) that may have only been touched by your map or may not have been touched at all.

different loads on the engine at a given throttle position and rpm require different amounts of fuel.. vechicle weight, terrain, clutching, tires etc all will affect engine load.
by logging in the real world and mapping from that, you wind up with a much more diverse and accurate map.
a dyno is great for fuel tuning for a drag race type situation (if the operator knows how to set it up) it's also great for making sure you're not lean and damaging your engine but to make a really good fuel map, you need time in the real world.

if you have a wideband, use your dyno map.. build a good solid log (or series of logs) and run them against that map.. if everything is configured correctly and your dyno run was truly setup correctly for your vehicle weight, you wont see a whole lot of change in the wide open numbers but you will see tons of changes everywhere else.

in a dyno run, the fuel changes will mostly fall inside a diagonal line that goes from minimum rpm, minimum tps to max rpm, max tps

mapping from logs solves the cells everywhere else, as well as provides long term averaging(better numbers) for the cells in that band.

 

Thanks

 

You the Great men! I have received a map rev xtend from Dynojet +500. And to me wrote the program at the stand dynojet. About a week, as after 6400 rpm in RZR emptiness - zero!

 

Reading all of this reminded me of sitting through spanish class back in high school. Marty you are a fn genius.

 

ya i've been trying to figure out what he was sayin for about 30 minutes..
still not there yet..

 

good, i thought it was me. WTF?

 

so would the pcIII or the V do me any good without an exhaust, or will it just be a waste. i have been thinking about changing my exhaust but i don't really want it to be any louder than stock. thanks, and thanks for all your hard work Marty!!

 

i cant speak to the rzr s, but the regular rzr is mapped very rich on the bottom, with a powercommander you could lean it out a little..
but the powercommander is expensive.. so you have to ask yourself.. is it worth it? i dont know..

iv'e done so much to my motor that without a way to add fuel to it, it'd lean out and screw up.. i have to have a controller,

the powercommander was my first engine mod though, and i've always liked it..

 

Martymoe,

Can you give some feedback about the Dynateck CDI that they are discussing in this thread: http://www.rzrforums.net/engine-drivetrain/10415-dynatech-cdi-testing-4.html#post97054 .
It looks like there are a bunch of us confused about the fule controller and the CDI (ignition?) box.

 

dynatek is a sister company to dynojet (powercommander) it does surprise me that they are competing with themselves.. i was talking to dynatek asking for ignition at the same time i was aksing dynojet for one.. dynatek said they were coming out with an ignition module while dynojet said they were not.. low and behold, dynojet came through first (powercommander ignition module)
dynatek also makes fuel controllers but they are not as customizable as the powercommanders. they are sometimes considered more user freindly because they are not as robust (= confusing) as the powercommander. in a nutshell, they are more simple.

from reading that thread, it looks like mpi is getting involved in the dynatek product, and that's fine..
dynatek's ignition module is basically the same as the powercommander module in that it lets you change your rev limit and build ignition curves.
i'm not sure, but possibly it replaces the entire ignition subsystem for the rzr (again i dont know) where the powercommander unit is a stacker type device.
the only advantages i cand see from the dynatek over the powercommander setup with respect to ignition is that they probably are using a different (hotter) coil and it is cheaper.

from a fueling perspective, the powercommander is hard to beat unless you have the facilities to completely rewrite your ecu (which would negate both of these products)

dynatek has been doing ignition for a long time.. dynojet is relatively new to this game.. but as i said before they are sister companies and they will share technology.

in the other thread, you said something about not wanting to add all of this stuff and chase your tail.. i believe trying to combine both fuel controllers and both ignition controllers would cause several signaling problems (polaris cps signal is really tough to pickup as it is) and would generate a whole bucket full of confusion..

if you already have the pciii setup, i would stay with that.. if you dont and you want to try the dynatek stuff, have at it.. dynatek is a great company and they have some great products..

for me, i'm staying with the powercommander until i start building my own ecu. at that point i will take what i have learned from the powercommander stuff and build on it.

if dynatek offers a new coil that makes a hotter spark, i might consider adding that on later but i'm not going to screw with my setup much because it works so very well.

hows that.. did that answer your questions?

oh btw.. if you have a pcIII ignition module, bump your timing to +10 from 20% to 100% throttle from 1500 rpms up through about 4000 rpms and you will see that crazy throttle response they are talking about. you will also see that midrange power gain.

 

Excellent answer! So if I read correctly, you say that you can raise the RPM Limit with the pciii. How do you go about that? I heard that up to 7k is safe on these motors and would be interested in doing that. In doing so I will probably waste the dyno tune I had done because it was tuned up to 6k, but I should be able to rectify that by using your program.
You had mentioned before that there are two ways to record the o2 data. Which do you recommend / is easiest for us less experienced with tuning the powercommander and who carrys it.
Thanks for the great feedback.

 

to raise the revlimit, you need the powercommander ignition module. once you have it, you will contact dynojet and request a rev extend. they do it this way because they need you to sign a waiver (if you bump your limit and blow your motor they dont want to be responsible)

there are more than two ways to do it.. the two ways that i have and i believe are the simplest is. a wideband commander with a log switch wired in.. (you can also use a laptop for logging) the other way (and the simple one) is kinda pricey, but it works really well. it's a wideband commander, powercommander, lcd 100 and a cable dynojet sells to link the powercommander and the wideband commander to the lcd 100. the lcd 100 is your logging device.

you can also generate logs with an lcd and a pressure input from the powercommander hub if you have a non dynojet type of wideband.

there are several vendors out there, dynojet sells everything you need, but you can dig on the net and usually save a little cash on all of the pieces.

a note on the rev limiter. i have my rev limiter set at 7500 but at 7250 i throw a bunch of fuel at it and dump the timing.. this effectively makes a 7250 rpm soft rev limiter..

 

Wow..great info

Thanks

 

Just want to say thanks once again Marty, this tuning wizard is great. To anyone out their with a PC3 and wideband who hasn't tried this, you are not getting the full potential out of your RZR.

 

I have also created my own PCIIIUSB map calculation tool.

It is a extended EXCEL table and quite independent from internet
and by my opinion more easier to use (especially if you are
using laptop near your bike or machine).

Take a look on that table on http://www.linde-mh.rs/MAP_calculation.zip,
and please give me your opinion at branko.v@linde-mh.rs

NOTE: The table calculation has some open issues regarding looking
through the log's, like deceleration and different TP in one imported log,
but if You take care that your log's are cleaned from deceleration entry's
and TP positions entry'y that do not belong there, it should work perfect.
On the other hand it has a big advantage that it uses AFR predefined
settings for each cell, and also possibility to use different log's for each cell
(e.g. TP 10-20 for measurements when the vehicle was driven in 6th gear,
and the rest in 3rd gear).

banelinde

 

Ok i was going to try to use the generation tool but its not there? did you take it down or something? i really need some help writing a map for my 800. Can someone please help me? thanks!

 

Marty, as you know, I race in the mud. As far as the engine goes, I have done nothing at all to it. I just recently installed a Dirty Dog clutch, and I have an FMF slip on that I will be installing in the next few days. I am always in Low, and turning between 5800 to 6000 RPM. As it is, I am hanging with turbos and nitrous. I guess I am lucky. My motto has always been: The more you add, the more to break.

To tell the truth, I am old school, and know very little about EFI. With all this said, would any of this be beneficial to a mud racer? I can see it out on the dunes, or the occasional drag for bragging rights. I can see some benefits to controlling the A/F, and the timing, but would it be money well spent in my application?