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Tribute100
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Discussion Starter #1
I just bought a 2012 RZR 800 EPS LE (Trail Wide) the other day. It has about 240 hours and 1550 miles and was used primarily for trail riding in the mountains. I have a 2010 Kubota RTV 900 Diesel that's 61" wide, but it's very slow, that we use around our property. We've only been trail riding once over at WindRock in TN. I wanted something that we could use to ride the narrow trails around here in WNC. It's taking me a little getting used to the CVT because I'm used to the smooth hydrostatic tranny in my Kubota. The RZR takes off rather quickly, so I'll have to get used to that.

I've been tinkering with it the last couple of days even though the guy I bought it from recently changed all the fluids and replaced the belt. It has new GBC Dirt Tamers on it. 27x9-12 and 27x11-12 with 2" wheel spacers that I may have to remove to ride on some of the restricted trails. It's 53.5" wide front and back right now. I had some throttle pedal slack and I went in yesterday and tried to get to the linkage at the throttle body. I managed to remove the bigger PVT rubber duct (outlet I believe) and I couldn't get the smaller PVT duct out to get to the throttle cable adjuster. I was afraid to jerk it out from the upper connection. I tried taking off the cargo box, but got discouraged after taking out lots of screws and bolts. Need to research that more, video hopefully.

What I did to take up the slack on the throttle pedal was to put 2 1/2" hard flat rubber washers (Home Depot plumbing dept.) on the cable (cut washers on one side with dikes) and slid between the stop and the rubber/plastic end assembly. My idle speed after warm up was 1200-1250 rpm and the two washers held that idle speed and took out the slack.

Now to the serious questions:

1. After start up, the gears grind trying to pull it back into reverse, even after warm up and idling back goes back to 1200-1250. If I turn off ignition, move shifter back to neutral and start it again it, I can shift it into R or L, H. But then after a while, putting it in neutral with engine still running, it will grind again. This didn't happen when I tested out the unit. I'm not sure if the idle speed is to high or if there's another problem like the new belt replacement.
Any suggestions of what could be wrong ?

2. After I bought the RZR I found out about the rear diff problem with the pinion nut. After watching the video of how to repair the pinion nut in the rear differential, I don't have the tools or the mechanical experience to tackle that job. I could take it out, but I don't want to use the local dealer.
Any suggestions to where I could send the rear diff to be repaired ?

3. Wheel Alignment: I could tell my wheel toe in was way off just by looking from the rear. By my official "shad tree mechanic" measurements my wheels are toed "in" 1.63 inches (Wow!) According to an online service manual the Toe Out should be 1/8" to 1/4".
Does that sound correct ?

Thanks for your help !

I look forward to being on RZRForums,net
 

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Welcome to the forum. Very nice detailed questions. There are others more qualified than I am that I am sure will answer them. I just want to address the pinion nut. You seem to be mechanically inclined and I am sure you can do it yourself. Pullerguy on here has the tools you can use and has a program set up for people. If I can do it I am sure you will be able to.
 

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You're going to have to take your cvt cover off and inspect it. The only way gears can grind like that is if the primary clutch is still spinning the belt at low rpms. Im still new to this type of cvt but it's my guess your needle bearing is bad or for some reason it is not fully disengaging the belt.
 

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It's taking me a little getting used to the CVT because I'm used to the smooth hydrostatic tranny in my Kubota. The RZR takes off rather quickly, so I'll have to get used to that.

It has new GBC Dirt Tamers on it. 27x9-12 and 27x11-12 with 2" wheel spacers that I may have to remove to ride on some of the restricted trails. It's 53.5" wide front and back right now.


Now to the serious questions:

1. After start up, the gears grind trying to pull it back into reverse, even after warm up and idling back goes back to 1200-1250. If I turn off ignition, move shifter back to neutral and start it again it, I can shift it into R or L, H. But then after a while, putting it in neutral with engine still running, it will grind again. This didn't happen when I tested out the unit. I'm not sure if the idle speed is to high or if there's another problem like the new belt replacement.
Any suggestions of what could be wrong ?
Hey Tribute,
- earlier this year, I purchased a 2014 RZR 800 EPS / LE that had similar hours, miles & tire sizes as yours - mine has a 2" lift kit but no wheel spacers.
Much like you, I didn't care for the way the CVT engaged, so I installed a Duraclutch system, which engages more smoothly so you don't get the quick jerk that stock clutch gives when starting off, it also provides for some engine braking on downhills, they are a bit expensive but might be worth checking out.

My 2014 had Big Horn tires (27x9x12's on front and 27x12x12's back) - I measured about 50 1/2" wide on front & 53 1/2" wide on back (w/o wheel spacers)
- I needed to be at 50" front & back, so I picked up a couple of used front rims from ebay that matched the existing fronts and put 26x9x12 Roctanes on all four.

With regard to the grinding when shifting - did you have the brake fully depressed and engine @ idle?
When I first drove mine, I ground the gears a couple of times when I didn't do that - no issues since then, when I do.

Don't know if have copies of the owners manual or service manual - but here are a a couple of links where you download them if needed,

Owners manual (2011 or 2014 listed - believe that 2011 would be used for 2012) https://offroad.polaris.com/en-us/owners-manuals/
Service manual (for 2011) https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1068813/Polaris-Ranger-Rzr-800.html#manual

Hope some of this is helpful.

Steeltom
 

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Welcome! Page 98 in the owners manual tells you how to adjust the throttle. If the rpms are to high at idle it will grind changing gears!
 

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Tribute100
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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you Steeltom, DMY, and Wingman02. I just got back inside to check if I was pressing the brake down hard enough to keep it from grinding.
Here's what happens:
If I start in up in Park or Neutral and don't touch the throttle, in goes into gear. If I rev it up in Park or Neutral and then try to shift, it grinds. If I drive around, then stop, put it in Neutral and rev it up, then it grinds trying to go in Low or Reverse. Idle jumps between 1150-1250, but I had been warming it up like the manual says by reving it up a little several times, and that's when I have the grinding. So there's a problem, and I'll just not rev in up in P or N, or check out the things DMY mentioned.

Steeltom, I'll check into that Duraclutch System and I just bookmarked that 2011 service manual. Thanks.
 

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Tribute100
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Discussion Starter #10
DMY, if I rev it up in P or N, then let it go back to idle, it still grinds. If I wait like 10+ seconds after going back to idle it will grind. Now I haven't let it go back to idle for like a minute, but I'll try that and see what happens.
 

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First thing I'd do is take the clutch cover off and blow the clutches out with compressed air. Do it outside as you'll be amazed how much dust they hold. Now start it with the cover off and watch how the clutches work. The grinding is because the secondary is spinning when it shouldn't be. A few things can cause this.

It can happen because:
Misalignment of the clutches. While it's running at idle, see if the belt is riding right in the middle of the primary. There should be a slight gap on each side of the belt. If not it's easy to adjust by removing the secondary and adding/removing shims. No special tools needed for this.

Bad bearing in the primary. This is what the belt rides on while at idle, and if it's froze up it will spin the belt all the time. This is a bigger project requiring special tools.

Weights engaging the primary at that rpm. Easy to see if you take the belt off and start it up. If the clutch compresses at all while at idle, you need to lower the idle speed until it doesn't. I had this happen on one because someone changed the weights at some point, then lowered the idle way down to compensate. When I adjusted the idle to 1200 like it should be, I ground gears. It was as simple as swapping out the 3 weights to the originals, which thankfully were included in the sale.

And, just maybe the new belt just needs broken in.
 

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Tribute100
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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks 204 AR. I will go through the steps you outlined.
Those ducts to the clutch cover were really dusty when I tried to take them off at the clutch cover housing. I was able to get the bigger duct towards the front completely out after loosening the clamp and pulling the plastic clips. Never could figure how to detach the smaller duct, after removing the clamp, from where it goes up into the panel behind the seat. I was afraid to pull it out and figured the rear bed had to be taken off. That's when I was trying to adjust the throttle cable slack.
 

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I'm also pretty much a noobie when it comes to these RZR's but I was able to do the pinion nut fix, with the help and tools provided by Pullerguy. If you have the ability to remove the rear diff from the RZR, with his tools, you can do the nut fix, I'm sure.

Also, here is a you tube video detailing the alignment of the belt between the clutches. The explanation of the alignment process starts at about 4 min. 30 sec. into the video.

 

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Tribute100
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Discussion Starter #15
ReedsportRZR, Thanks, you've given me confidence that I can do the pinion nut. Now if my wife will let me continue to use her parking place inside, I'll be OK.
We had record heat here in WNC the past month, it was 91 yesterday, now it will only get to 65 today. Now that's my kind of weather.

To 24 AR, that back clutch cooling duct is in my way to adjust the throttle slack, but looking at a parts drawing I should be able to pull it straight down out the it's receptacle, no retaining clips are indicated.
 

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ReedsportRZR, Thanks, you've given me confidence that I can do the pinion nut.

I recently did the pinon nut, I'm a mechanic by trade so it was a piece of cake, but.... If you watch Les's (pullerguy)video and have all the tools he used you should be ok. You need a bit more than basic tools too (besides the nut tools) but nothing serious. The hardest part of the job I found was dealing with all the bolts on the rear gear(diff). Some are a bear to get to and they are pretty tight. I don't like calling it a diff because it isn't a differential. The book calls it the rear gearcase I think. Send Pullerguy a message and he can hook you up with the pinion nut tools and even the parts at a good price.

As for the clutch stuff.....On mine it was pretty jerky taking off, hard to load on the trailer because of it. Once I blew all the dirt/dust out of the primary it is pretty smooth now, made a huge difference. Now that I think about it the shifting wasn't very smooth, it is now. I bet if you blow out the primary, clean the belt surfaces of the primary and driven, put on a new belt it will be like new. Idle RPM is 1200-1250 on mine, that seems to be normal. 204 AR 's post #11 is spot on if you ask me.

You can further play with the throttle cable when you get the bed out of the way. Yes, there are a bunch of screws and bolts and even push type plastic fasteners but it's not rocket science.

As for toe, yes, 1/8" toed in I think is what the book says. I'm not sure how you measured it but remeber the string method won't work unless the f and r tires are the same distance apart. They most likely are not. I use the books method of measuring a spot on the front tires, rolling the machine a half turn on the tires and measure them again at the back. I used a big framing square to mark the shop floor according to the marks on the tire. That made it easier to measure by myself. Make sure to adjust the left and right tie rod ends the same to keep your steering wheel aligned.

When you see the silly setup for the air intake for the engine and belt under the bed, you might want to have a look at this thread too.

https://www.rzrforums.net/rzr-800-specific-discussion/362249-air-intake.html
 

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ReedsportRZR, Thanks, you've given me confidence that I can do the pinion nut.
. The hardest part of the job I found was dealing with all the bolts on the rear gear(diff). Some are a bear to get to and they are pretty tight. .

Yes, true statement. Patience is your friend, and a ratcheting end wrench. I numbered all of them as they are not all the same.
 

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ReedsportRZR, Thanks, you've given me confidence that I can do the pinion nut.
. The hardest part of the job I found was dealing with all the bolts on the rear gear(diff). Some are a bear to get to and they are pretty tight. .

Yes, true statement. Patience is your friend, and a ratcheting end wrench. I numbered all of them as they are not all the same.
Yes! This little guy right here is the biggest key.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GearWrench-1-2-in-Combination-Ratcheting-Wrench-9016D/202737898?mtc=Shopping-B-F_D25T-G-D25T-25_1_HAND_TOOLS-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-HandTools_PLA&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D25T-G-D25T-25_1_HAND_TOOLS-Multi-NA-Feed-PLA-NA-NA-HandTools_PLA-71700000034127224-58700003933021546-92700031755124841&gclid=CjwKCAjw_uDsBRAMEiwAaFiHayC8LMvaaDkL1Tbi_xMn2oBNnnHzWbiBy__Ox6d89bJdMEgluOO60RoCzBYQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds
 

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Tribute100
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Discussion Starter #19
2012 RZR 800 problem with gears grinding:
I pulled the clutch cover to see what was going on with belt and clutch assy. I blow the dust out with a air gun, not a lot in there. I started it up, did not touch the throttle, and the belt was stationary at 1200-1250 rpm's. Then I revved up the engine, clutch engaged and the belt started turning. Let off the throttle, rpm's went down to 1200-1250, but the belt never stopped moving, even after several minutes. Shut it off, restarted the engine, did not touch the throttle, and belt did not move. Revved it up, clutch engages, let it settle back to idle, belt continues to turn, just as before.
Turn off the engine, look at the belt on the primary clutch, and there's more of a gap on the engine side. So I pulled the secondary clutch off, I find two 0.060" shims on the shaft. I clean any grease and dirt I find, wipe down the inside of the clutches with clean rag w/brake cleaner on it. Both inside are nice and smooth, no build up of any rubber, bearing inside on the primary moved freely. I put he secondary clutch back on with only one 0.060" shim and torqued the bolt to 17 lbs.
Ok, here's where the problem begins. I attempt to put back on the belt just like in the video above. This belt was recently installed by the previous owner. It was a Gates G-Force C12 No. 24C4022 (1-1/4" x 41-3/8").
I'm an old guy, but not a weakling, and I was not able to roll that belt back on the secondary clutch, by slipping it in the bottom of the secondary clutch and pulling it up in the direction the engine rotates. I was afraid to pry on the aluminum clutch and screw it up. I tried several times, resting in between, but no luck. My secondary clutch has no way to open up those sheaves that I could tell, it has a little black plastic 'cylinder' on both sides of the outside of the clutch going towards the center. Maybe there's a way to use the belt and pull up on it and stick something safe in there to keep them open. Any suggestions ?
The seller gave me the belt that he had taken off, a Polaris No. 321133, probably the original. I was able to get that on, it wasn't easy, but with about the same difficulty as the mechanic in the video above. I started up the engine and i could tell the belt was not engaging real good, vibrated, but did engage when I pressed on the throttle. Belt would stop moving as soon as it went back to idle every time. I temporarily put the seat in and drove it around, it was very jumpy, obviously why the seller had put a new belt on it. He was 20 years younger than me, and apparently was able to get that new Gates belt on somehow.
I noticed the old belt was not centered on the primary clutch, so I took the belt and secondary off, put the second 0.060" shim back on and got the old belt back on. The old belt did not move anytime the engine was at idle, even though it was off center to the other side on the primary.
I know the new Gates belt is a heavy duty one, but since I could not get it back on, I could not tell if removing one 0.060" shim would have centered it on the primary. So back to square one.
Does anyone have any ideas ? I may have to get a clutch puller to get the Gates belt back on, but think I'll have the same problem with the belt turning the secondary after revving and going back to idle.
Could that belt be too small ? Sure has me puzzled.
 
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