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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I get a phone call almost every single day asking about clutching a RZR for slow riding, rock crawling and slow technical riders mostly with big tires and they all want more belt grip. What do I do more times than not? Tell them do nothing that stock clutching works pretty good for slow moving and big tires. Two issues, one they don't get anything any better than stock and we don't get to sell them anything really a loss loss. This may be hard for me to explain but I discussed what I wanted to do with Dalton and we came up with a better solution for the issue. You might take away from the above statement I just want to sell something but that is not true, I hate telling a guy to do nothing when he is reaching out to me for something to help him with his belt slippage.

Before I get started on what we are going to do let me attempt to explain why I have been saying stock works as good as any. Assuming stock clutching is right for stock tires, emphasis is on assuming as Polaris rarely gets it right and 16 RZR 1000 is the best example, that clutch calibration is just awful. But anyway, assuming stock is right the weights and springs are matched up for stock tires. If you was going to put larger tires on then for performance riding you would put lighter weights and stiffer springs in which would raise rpm during shift phase to put the engine rpm back where it belongs after you added your big tires. What does lighter weights and stiffer primary springs do for a slow mover? It would make it slip the belt even more and this is why I don't sell slow only riders kits. So the stock is too heavy for the larger tires but does give better grip on the belt down low therefore I say keep it stock for slow only riding. We now can improve belt grip over stock but I have just not thought about it really until now.

What I am talking about ONLY works for people who actually ONLY use low range and more or less never exceed 20-30 mph who are ONLY rock crawlers and ONLY slow technical riders not so much mud guys because you normally floor it in a mud holes so normal clutching better fits you. This would not work for anyone uses his RZR for any fast riding or any kind of fast climbing. I realize this is for just a small group of people but I get this call everyday.

There is clutch tuning for performance for people who drive fast or duners and added performance is very important to them, one thing they are not concerned about is belt grip down low because they don't drive slow and their clutch will be set up for what they are doing. This will be what I call normal clutching. A slow technical rider is not concerned about increased performance his only concern is belt grip so he does not slip his belt. Anyone who stays in low range driving slow really never can get any kind of performance enhancement anyway no matter what they do to clutch.

So what we are going to do is offer you the same clutch kit as fast riders with a optional primary spring that is weaker than the one in the kit then we are going to set the flyweights up much heavier than the instructions say, remember the instructions are for normal clutching. A weaker primary spring allows the clutch to engage quicker and at a lower rpm. Example: I was looking at the instructions for one of the 1000 kits yesterday and it called for a .85 gr rivet and 1 long screw and one short for 32" tires, on this we would go to three full set screws to make them heavy and try it, if still not enough, we would go to the next heavier rivet in the kit then add screws. This is just an example but I can help you on the set ups for anyone.

It goes deeper than this. I called Dalton to talk to him about what my plan was and ask about leaving out the helix out of the kit since we just wanted belt grip and he explained something I just should have known. When you make flyweights really heavy your clutch will close up faster with more grip but will also shift out faster which means the belt will ride higher in primary faster too so the helix in the kit slows shift out down and aids in backshifting meaning when you let off the gas it will come back to low ratio quicker. The point? you still need the helix.

What is the downside of doing this? If you haul butt and hit a hill or any kind of elevation change, the clutch will not backshift as fast as a normal clutched vehicle, the belt will be too high in the primary clutch and it will possibly slip the belt there. This is why earlier I said ONLY slow people who don't do anything but go slow in low. A upside to this is you will have more engine braking for a longer period of time because the heavier flyweights will keep the primary clutch engaged longer so therefore you have more or longer lasting engine braking.

Switching gears for a second. Anyone who rock crawls on saturday and hauls butt on Sunday no clutch kit is going to help you in both locations, you will set it up for what we are calling normal or this and neither will do the other so you are in a bad spot and have to decide what you want. I tell people everyday, when you are trying to acheive maximum performance for whatever you are doing then clutching gets very specific.

We are trying to help a wider range of people with their clutching issues. The groups we can cover are duners, fast trail riders, high elevation guys and now slow technical riders. The only person that is hard to help is the guy who wants to do technical riding and something else faster in the same day or weekend who wants one set up, it just does not work that way for him.

This way of clutching as mentioned is only for the slow riders but tire size really won't affect this as much as it does for fast riding because our only mission to grab the belt better. When you are trying to get moving obviously larger tires take more effort to get them moving so there is more possibility of belt slippage therefore your clutch weights may need to be even heavier than a small tire guy.

So in the end what we are offering is hopefully a solution to your issue or at least a whole lot better than it is right now. At the end of the day you will still have a clutch that has to come together and grab the belt to get you moving and stay clamped down on the belt to keep from slipping. What we are doing just does this faster and more clamping force.

We highly recommend a gear reduction for larger tires for anyone really but more so for this group of people. I do get the call again almost daily, I have 34" terms on a XP1000 two seater and rock crawl, help me. He really would benefit from gear reduction and this set up. Keep in mind a RZR was geared to haul butt not crawl. The HL editions have lower gear ratios, the 4 seaters have lower and the rock crawling edition has a 55% lower low gear but more times than not the guy making this phone call is a normal two seat 1000. As of today the only set up like this we have is the 1000 RZR 14-17 and 16-17 900 models but it can be done with others but I have not picked the primary springs out for those kits yet.

So if you fall into this group give me a call and we can get you set up. I realize this will be small number of people in the grand scheme of things but we don't want to leave anyone out and turn you away when more times than not those people I turn away go elsewhere and just get a normal clutch kit set up and make it worse than it is now.

Todd
 

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Todd, once again you have went above and beyond! I want to THANK YOU for all that you do to help!
 

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Yes sir it does. Get the heel as heavy as possible, and load whole fly weight up, with a lighter primary spring. I opted for a heel clicker kit to have additional heel weight. My engagement is about 2-300 rpms lower than stock.
 

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What would you recommend for me? I just put together a 2017 highlighter rzr 4 seater with 4" portals and 36" terms. The 2017 highlighter has the same 55% gear reduction as the rock crawler and then another 30% from the portals. Over all it feels pretty good but I haven't gotten into anything sticky with it yet. Reverse feels like it will slip far too easily. I have blown a belt right up already with it but that was from coors fueled abuse in high gear and deep snow.



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What would you recommend for me? I just put together a 2017 highlighter rzr 4 seater with 4" portals and 36" terms. The 2017 highlighter has the same 55% gear reduction as the rock crawler and then another 30% from the portals. Over all it feels pretty good but I haven't gotten into anything sticky with it yet. Reverse feels like it will slip far too easily. I have blown a belt right up already with it but that was from coors fueled abuse in high gear and deep snow.
From everything I've read, I think there's some confusion about the new highlifter gearing. If you read the specs carefully, it says "55% lower gearing", and not actually 55% reduction. Math on that comes out to around the 27%, compared to the 12-13% in the 15 highlifter I have. (27% is what I installed in mine) Anybody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what's actually going on. My neighbor has a 17 highlifter rzr on 36 intimidators, and it does turn then pretty good with no additional gearing or clutching, but it doesn't compare to my 27% stacked on 30% portals with clutching on 40s.

-don't take this like I'm hating on you, just trying to make sure we're all on the same page.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
What would you recommend for me? I just put together a 2017 highlighter rzr 4 seater with 4" portals and 36" terms. The 2017 highlighter has the same 55% gear reduction as the rock crawler and then another 30% from the portals. Over all it feels pretty good but I haven't gotten into anything sticky with it yet. Reverse feels like it will slip far too easily. I have blown a belt right up already with it but that was from coors fueled abuse in high gear and deep snow.



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I can't confirm it does have the same low, seems like Turner said it does not

But a clutch kit with more weight in it to give more belt grip

Todd
 

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What would you recommend for me? I just put together a 2017 highlighter rzr 4 seater with 4" portals and 36" terms. The 2017 highlighter has the same 55% gear reduction as the rock crawler and then another 30% from the portals. Over all it feels pretty good but I haven't gotten into anything sticky with it yet. Reverse feels like it will slip far too easily. I have blown a belt right up already with it but that was from coors fueled abuse in high gear and deep snow.
From everything I've read, I think there's some confusion about the new highlifter gearing. If you read the specs carefully, it says "55% lower gearing", and not actually 55% reduction. Math on that comes out to around the 27%, compared to the 12-13% in the 15 highlifter I have. (27% is what I installed in mine) Anybody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what's actually going on. My neighbor has a 17 highlifter rzr on 36 intimidators, and it does turn then pretty good with no additional gearing or clutching, but it doesn't compare to my 27% stacked on 30% portals with clutching on 40s.

-don't take this like I'm hating on you, just trying to make sure we're all on the same page.


Yes that makes sense. 55% reduction would be insane.

Polaris advertises the exact same 55% lower gearing in low for both the 2017 highlifter and the gold LE.

I am assuming that the 17 high lifter high gear is the same ratio as the 16 highlighter but the low gear is now lower. So if I'm reading this correctly my stock 17 HL with 4" portals should be almost identical to your gearing in low but not in high or reverse. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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Most likely that's correct, seems like you'd have the same gearing in high and reverse as I did stock, but low like I have now. I've yet to find a parts list for the new transmissions. I know what's in mine, I've had a few of them apart for upgrades. I can say, with the current gearing, clutching, and portals, I have zero issues going forward with 40s, and it has to be sticky and to the top of the tires for reverse to slip.
 

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What would you recommend for me? I just put together a 2017 highlighter rzr 4 seater with 4" portals and 36" terms. The 2017 highlighter has the same 55% gear reduction as the rock crawler and then another 30% from the portals. Over all it feels pretty good but I haven't gotten into anything sticky with it yet. Reverse feels like it will slip far too easily. I have blown a belt right up already with it but that was from coors fueled abuse in high gear and deep snow.



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I can't confirm it does have the same low, seems like Turner said it does not

But a clutch kit with more weight in it to give more belt grip

Todd
Could you PM me a quote? I'm going to leave the gearing alone for now and really concentrate on using Low. I would need it shipped to Alberta Canada T8W 5E7.

Thanks,
Jason
 

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[/QUOTE] I am assuming that the 17 high lifter high gear is the same ratio as the 16 highlighter but the low gear is now lower. So if I'm reading this correctly my stock 17 HL with 4" portals should be almost identical to your gearing in low but not in high or reverse. Correct me if I'm wrong. [/QUOTE]

I've been doing some studying on parts schematics to figure what I want to do. As far as I can tell, correct me if I'm wrong, The low gear (input shaft) on 16 highlifter and 17 Highlifter and Gold edition is the same. High gear is higher geared (faster) on 17 Highlifter and Gold edition. Then Polaris lowered the differential gears to bring high range back to about same ground speed as 16 XP 1000. This lower diff ratio accounts for the additional low gear gearing and still maintain normal high gearing
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If for a turbo, we don't sell a kit for a turbo


No. This wouldn't be for my turbo. It would be for my 2017 highlighter 4 with 4" portals and 36" terms.



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Call me early in the am like 830 to 9 before I get all backed up on calls to discuss this

Todd
 

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I'll probably call also next day or two to discuss this option since it doesn't look like Duraclutch is going to happen any time soon
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'll probably call also next day or two to discuss this option since it doesn't look like Duraclutch is going to happen any time soon
Duraclutch is shipping now, you want one it ships tomorrow. Call me I have not announced because they have been oversold and supply is limited. I won't put them on our site on announce it really until they are readily available

$1899 shipped for one

Todd
 
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