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Hello Everyone,
I am now on my 2 rzr (2010 rzr s) and have been doing research for almost 2 weeks on a turbo,supercharger,big bore and even a weber(don't really want to do the mods that the motor swap needs). I do a lot of trail, mud riding where we live and need power at low rpm's and have been looking at the turbos the most. Aerocharger claims you will get it at low end but not to sure when they are building boost(no dyno charts). Since you guys are the best to ask I would like your knowledge on this because I don't want to spend $5000 and be very disappointed. Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Did u go with water to air or air to air intercooler. Heard water to air provides better throttle response
 

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Hello Everyone,
I am now on my 2 rzr (2010 rzr s) and have been doing research for almost 2 weeks on a turbo,supercharger,big bore and even a weber(don't really want to do the mods that the motor swap needs). I do a lot of trail, mud riding where we live and need power at low rpm's and have been looking at the turbos the most. Aerocharger claims you will get it at low end but not to sure when they are building boost(no dyno charts). Since you guys are the best to ask I would like your knowledge on this because I don't want to spend $5000 and be very disappointed. Thanks
Take a look at the HOLZ stage 3 Big bore kit if you want lots of low end torque for trail riding. I seldom use Low any more since putting the HOLZ stage 3 kit on. It has to be really bad terrain for me to go to AWD and even then I can stay in high. I just got back from the dunes and the HOLZ provided me with all the power I needed even in the sand without running paddles. For it's kit completeness in providing everything from Clutching to ECM ,exhaust and the race proven long term reliability, the HOLZ kit is hard to beat. You don't have to fiddle with boost, maps, cutting holes in your RZR and just the random destruction of parts that plagues the turbos. Once you have the HOLZ kit in, it's requires the same type of maintenance as the stock engine along with the peace of mind of having reliability. The other Big Bore kits and turbos can't claim as much and usually require a good deal of your time just to get them set up right and to keep them running. Holz took the mystery out of it and put ALL of the parts needed to make the system work with the vehicle and have race proven reliability in what amounts to a COMPLETE turn key solution. The torque and HP dyno chart for the HOLZ kit is below.

 

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Honestly you will not be disappointed with any turbo kit. Aerocharger, Mcx, and K & T all work really well and give you low power and acceleration you're looking for.
 

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I recently installed the aero air to air. I do mostly trail riding. the low end is great. Climb steep hills with ease compared to before. Theres is no lag or big surprize when you hit the throtle, just smooth big power. And you'll love it in mud. The power let's you fly through it. You'll be smiling...
 
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I was concerned about the low end with a turbo, I trail ride,some times slow technical stuff and also some mud.. and I really considered just doing a BB even though I wanted more power than the Holz kit offered...my turbo experience was mostly with cars..after talking to a few people I went with the Turbo kit and now I am glad I did...the low end is there...it makes boost at part throttle and the power deliverly is seamless..no light switch effect..it's always there
With the CVT you can't really load the engine down low anyway..as soon as you give it a little throttle under a good load the clutches back shift and you are over 3,000-4,000 RPM any way...perfect set up for a turbo IMO..and with the power available with the turbo you can clutch the machine so that it will work much better in the technical stuff than it did stock...you have the power to get good belt pinch even at lower RPMS and you actually can set it up to load it more at lower RPMs..loads that would bog stock motor power at the same RPM...I went from riding in low 75% of the time to keep the belt from slipping,boggin ect.. to riding in high 75% of the time with no problems.
 

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Hello Everyone,
I am now on my 2 rzr (2010 rzr s) and have been doing research for almost 2 weeks on a turbo,supercharger,big bore and even a weber(don't really want to do the mods that the motor swap needs). I do a lot of trail, mud riding where we live and need power at low rpm's and have been looking at the turbos the most. Aerocharger claims you will get it at low end but not to sure when they are building boost(no dyno charts). Since you guys are the best to ask I would like your knowledge on this because I don't want to spend $5000 and be very disappointed. Thanks
Take a look at the HOLZ stage 3 Big bore kit if you want lots of low end torque for trail riding. I seldom use Low any more since putting the HOLZ stage 3 kit on. It has to be really bad terrain for me to go to AWD and even then I can stay in high. I just got back from the dunes and the HOLZ provided me with all the power I needed even in the sand without running paddles. For it's kit completeness in providing everything from Clutching to ECM ,exhaust and the race proven long term reliability, the HOLZ kit is hard to beat. You don't have to fiddle with boost, maps, cutting holes in your RZR and just the random destruction of parts that plagues the turbos. Once you have the HOLZ kit in, it's requires the same type of maintenance as the stock engine along with the peace of mind of having reliability. The other Big Bore kits and turbos can't claim as much and usually require a good deal of your time just to get them set up right and to keep them running. Holz took the mystery out of it and put ALL of the parts needed to make the system work with the vehicle and have race proven reliability in what amounts to a COMPLETE turn key solution. The torque and HP dyno chart for the HOLZ kit is below.


IMO dont waste you time on a BB kit. Thy have their place in sanctioned racing events where turbos are not allowed, but really suck hind tit to any of the turbo kits out there. I live in Colorado and ride all sorts of terrain and the turbo has not let me down in 1400 miles.I bet they have more power EVERYWHERE than the BB, even the lowend. PLease also keep in mind that 70hp is at the crank, I bet it is closer to 50 at the wheels whereas any of the turbo kits out there will be 65+ to the rear wheel. My MCX put down was 83 with no fiddling..Just like them come from the factory..........Trust me...if you buy the BB you will kick yoursef in the arse.
 

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I am in the same boat as this guy. The only thing helping me as the most the venders have not finalized there kits for the 2011's. I spoke to Matt at Holz today and it sounds like it won't be till after the winter until they have there kit available
I'm torn. I don't mind spending the money I just don't want a blown up POS sitting my garage.
 

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De Oppresso Liber
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Hello Everyone,
I am now on my 2 rzr (2010 rzr s) and have been doing research for almost 2 weeks on a turbo,supercharger,big bore and even a weber(don't really want to do the mods that the motor swap needs). I do a lot of trail, mud riding where we live and need power at low rpm's and have been looking at the turbos the most. Aerocharger claims you will get it at low end but not to sure when they are building boost(no dyno charts). Since you guys are the best to ask I would like your knowledge on this because I don't want to spend $5000 and be very disappointed. Thanks
Take a look at the HOLZ stage 3 Big bore kit if you want lots of low end torque for trail riding. I seldom use Low any more since putting the HOLZ stage 3 kit on. It has to be really bad terrain for me to go to AWD and even then I can stay in high. I just got back from the dunes and the HOLZ provided me with all the power I needed even in the sand without running paddles. For it's kit completeness in providing everything from Clutching to ECM ,exhaust and the race proven long term reliability, the HOLZ kit is hard to beat. You don't have to fiddle with boost, maps, cutting holes in your RZR and just the random destruction of parts that plagues the turbos. Once you have the HOLZ kit in, it's requires the same type of maintenance as the stock engine along with the peace of mind of having reliability. The other Big Bore kits and turbos can't claim as much and usually require a good deal of your time just to get them set up right and to keep them running. Holz took the mystery out of it and put ALL of the parts needed to make the system work with the vehicle and have race proven reliability in what amounts to a COMPLETE turn key solution. The torque and HP dyno chart for the HOLZ kit is below.


IMO dont waste you time on a BB kit. Thy have their place in sanctioned racing events where turbos are not allowed, but really suck hind tit to any of the turbo kits out there. I live in Colorado and ride all sorts of terrain and the turbo has not let me down in 1400 miles.I bet they have more power EVERYWHERE than the BB, even the lowend. PLease also keep in mind that 70hp is at the crank, I bet it is closer to 50 at the wheels whereas any of the turbo kits out there will be 65+ to the rear wheel. My MCX put down was 83 with no fiddling..Just like them come from the factory..........Trust me...if you buy the BB you will kick yoursef in the arse.

Can you explain how you can get an accurate RWHP figure when the RZR uses a CVT? The answer is you can't due to all the variables involved from one persons set up to another. Using RWHP on a CVT is highly misleading, that's why Holz states what it is at the crank. If reliability is important then the Holz BB kit outweighs any benefit a larger BB kit or Turbo may offer because sooner than later those big CC BBs and turbos grenade engines and engine parts quicker than a fat kid eating free doughnuts. Just look at all the threads in the FI forum and the problems people have had with them at one point or another.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thanks for the input guys,now I have been looking at the weber swap kit (130hp) but it seems wasteland performance is not around? Anyone know what's going on
 

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TURBO's don't blow up motors, the lack of knowledge does( to much boost / timing / rpm ) It would be the Same on a N/a motor that was high compression 12:5 or 14:1 1 CR on 87 octaine = snap crackle pop.
Turbos have been used on much poorly designed motors than the RZR for the last 70 years. The Holz stage 3 and any one of the top 3 turbo kits are not even in the same class. I have over 4500 miles on my 2 bone stock MCX air to water kits with no issues. As far as the Dyno goes if the same dyno is used for the baseline and the final mod with the same enviroment variables. power to the ground is the only thing that matters who cares about Crank HP ? if it's not power to the ground what good is it doing you ?

I ask you this question would you rather have a motor that puts out 70 crank HP with A 29% drivetrain loss

(50RWHP= $3900= 3.5-5rwhp per $1000 )

or a 110 crank HP motor with a 29% drivetrain loss

(86RWHP= $4900=8-10rwhp per $1000)

If you are the guy that thinks, oh I can run 25-30 lbs of boost just this once so I can beat this guy up the hill :rm_thumbdown: then the Turbo may not be for you!! LOL

This is a dyno Run from our Test Mule RZR #1 the

DAVE008 run is the stock motor with around 250 miles. The best Run Stock was 38.3 RWHP.

DAVE103 Run is Our stage 1 air to water Intercooler at 11PSI putting down 85.6 RWHP.

That is over 100% increase in RWHP ( oh yeah this RZR'S now has over 2200+++ miles with no other mods and ZERO issues on 93 octaine pump gas.)

I have over 200 runs on this RZR and atleast another 200 runs on our other test RZR on our dyno in the last 60 days testing products.


Take a look at the HOLZ stage 3 Big bore kit if you want lots of low end torque for trail riding. I seldom use Low any more since putting the HOLZ stage 3 kit on. It has to be really bad terrain for me to go to AWD and even then I can stay in high. I just got back from the dunes and the HOLZ provided me with all the power I needed even in the sand without running paddles. For it's kit completeness in providing everything from Clutching to ECM ,exhaust and the race proven long term reliability, the HOLZ kit is hard to beat. You don't have to fiddle with boost, maps, cutting holes in your RZR and just the random destruction of parts that plagues the turbos. Once you have the HOLZ kit in, it's requires the same type of maintenance as the stock engine along with the peace of mind of having reliability. The other Big Bore kits and turbos can't claim as much and usually require a good deal of your time just to get them set up right and to keep them running. Holz took the mystery out of it and put ALL of the parts needed to make the system work with the vehicle and have race proven reliability in what amounts to a
 

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De Oppresso Liber
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TURBO's don't blow up motors, the lack of knowledge does( to much boost / timing / rpm ) It would be the Same on a N/a motor that was high compression 12:5 or 14:1 1 CR on 87 octaine = snap crackle pop.
Turbos have been used on much poorly designed motors than the RZR for the last 70 years. The Holz stage 3 and any one of the top 3 turbo kits are not even in the same class. I have over 4500 miles on my 2 bone stock MCX air to water kits with no issues. As far as the Dyno goes if the same dyno is used for the baseline and the final mod with the same enviroment variables. power to the ground is the only thing that matters who cares about Crank HP ? if it's not power to the ground what good is it doing you ?

I ask you this question would you rather have a motor that puts out 70 crank HP with A 29% drivetrain loss

(50RWHP= $3900= 3.5-5rwhp per $1000 )

or a 110 crank HP motor with a 29% drivetrain loss

(86RWHP= $4900=8-10rwhp per $1000)

If you are the guy that thinks, oh I can run 25-30 lbs of boost just this once so I can beat this guy up the hill :rm_thumbdown: then the Turbo may not be for you!! LOL

This is a dyno Run from our Test Mule RZR #1 the

DAVE008 run is the stock motor with around 250 miles. The best Run Stock was 38.3 RWHP.

DAVE103 Run is Our stage 1 air to water Intercooler at 11PSI putting down 85.6 RWHP.

That is over 100% increase in RWHP ( oh yeah this RZR'S now has over 2200+++ miles with no other mods and ZERO issues on 93 octaine pump gas.)

I have over 200 runs on this RZR and atleast another 200 runs on our other test RZR on our dyno in the last 60 days testing products.


Take a look at the HOLZ stage 3 Big bore kit if you want lots of low end torque for trail riding. I seldom use Low any more since putting the HOLZ stage 3 kit on. It has to be really bad terrain for me to go to AWD and even then I can stay in high. I just got back from the dunes and the HOLZ provided me with all the power I needed even in the sand without running paddles. For it's kit completeness in providing everything from Clutching to ECM ,exhaust and the race proven long term reliability, the HOLZ kit is hard to beat. You don't have to fiddle with boost, maps, cutting holes in your RZR and just the random destruction of parts that plagues the turbos. Once you have the HOLZ kit in, it's requires the same type of maintenance as the stock engine along with the peace of mind of having reliability. The other Big Bore kits and turbos can't claim as much and usually require a good deal of your time just to get them set up right and to keep them running. Holz took the mystery out of it and put ALL of the parts needed to make the system work with the vehicle and have race proven reliability in what amounts to a


You first have to explain how you can quantify and repeat those RWHP numbers from one persons machine to another when using a CVT system.

Using Crank HP figures removes all the variables of the CVT, clutching, tire size, etc that can cause a different HP number from one persons machine to the next. It's an apples to apples comparison when looking at crank HP and it can be repeated from one mans machine(manufacturer) to another (Customer) using the same kit and getting the same results.

Put 2 machines with the same kit but with different clutching, tires etc and take a RWHP reading and you will see different results. So from a marketing /manufacturer stand point it might look good to list RWHP numbers but unless the customers machine is set up exactly as the factory machine was from A to Z, the chances are that the customers machine is not going to produce the same RWHP numbers.
 

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MCX,K&T and Aerocharge are good turbo kits,Holz BB is a complete kit of a Big-Bore,Weber in the other hand is good engine,in the end it is your choice,Go with the turbo or HOLZ-BB if you don't want a the weber engine swap.
 

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You first have to explain how you can quantify and repeat those RWHP numbers from one persons machine to another when using a CVT system

Ok so to start off let me just say that polaris has used the same basic clutch in all the Rzr's ( same dia sheeves) since its release.all of the machines we have tested used the same springs and weights that are used in Brand X's turbo kit.
And just for the record you will not find a clutch out there that will increase HP LOL . it may put more load or less load on the drivetrain but not increase or decrease the HP to the wheels by 20hp. We have tested 6 Turbo rzr's on our dyno for this testing and all have been with in 3-7rwhp at stock and 3-7 rwhp after the turbo, all running Stock 26 inch bighorns. #'s ranging from 77RWHP to 92.3RWHP at 180KPA you will always have one motor that runs stronger by a few HP than others.

now up front let me state that this refrence is not for RWHP, but overall gain in power from stock to turbo (meaning that diffrent dynos read higher and lower by some factor ) we had one of the first consumer dynos in the southeast 12 years ago and have dynoed over 12000 cars, that is not runs thats Cars. We know our dyno very well.

Using Crank HP figures removes all the variables of the CVT, clutching, tire size, etc that can cause a different HP number from one persons machine to the next. It's an apples to apples comparison when looking at crank HP and it can be repeated from one mans machine(manufacturer) to another (Customer) using the same kit and getting the same results

Yes this is true but lets use Real world # you can have a car that puts down 750 at the crank and 550 at the wheels and another car that puts down 650 at the crank and 560 to the wheels the final # is most important because it is the usable HP#.

Thanks David:)
 
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You first have to explain how you can quantify and repeat those RWHP numbers from one persons machine to another when using a CVT system.

Using Crank HP figures removes all the variables of the CVT, clutching, tire size, etc that can cause a different HP number from one persons machine to the next. It's an apples to apples comparison when looking at crank HP and it can be repeated from one mans machine(manufacturer) to another (Customer) using the same kit and getting the same results.

Put 2 machines with the same kit but with different clutching, tires etc and take a RWHP reading and you will see different results. So from a marketing /manufacturer stand point it might look good to list RWHP numbers but unless the customers machine is set up exactly as the factory machine was from A to Z, the chances are that the customers machine is not going to produce the same RWHP numbers.
Lou..I get what you are saying...the CVT can be tricky to dyno accurately,I've said that myself many times..unless you lock the clutches..and even with the exact same machine, dyno to dyno numbers can vary. Same is true even on a Manual transmission..the dyno id just a tool...run a dyno, mod and tune ect then re-dyno preferably on the same dyno.but when you are talking that much of a difference in power the few HP variance either way caused by the CVT is basically a moot point IMO..even with the CVT no way you would get higher numbers at the wheels than you would at the crank...so it is pretty clear the base Turbo kits on 8-10 psi make ALOT more power that a Holz Stage 3 kit...just no disputing that IMO. Driveline losses are normally a percentage..the drivline stays the same so whether you run a Holz or a Turbo you will loose basically the same percentage...if the Holz makes 70 Crank HP and the Turbo set up averages 70 RWHP(just throwing a number out there) it is obvious which is make more power..wheel dynos can be manipulated some...but taking out all of the driveline loss just isn't happening..
Just an FYI..apples to oranges kind of but the 70 crank HP Polaris Sportsman 850 puts down an average of 45-47 RWHP through it's CVT on the dyno from what I have seen...and SUPPOSEDLY its' CVT is very efficient by Polaris' standards..so that is ABOUT what I would expect a Holz kit to put to the ground...unless of course their Engine dyno is stingy and it actually makes more than 70?? Oh boy now we have to question the engine dyno numbers as well lol.
no they aren't SOLID numbers..but IMO the difference in power is large enough to make the Crank Dyno vs Wheel dyno argument not valid in this case...JMO
 
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