Hey 12rzrs
You are on the right track. Wouldn't hurt to try to drop a bit of weight.
Usually I like to drop more weight then less so you can clearly see the cause and effect of your new setting.
I learned the hard way by going in circles dropping or adding a gram at a time and thinking I felt a difference. Once you get experience tuning a bit more, your butt dyno will be more in tune to feeling minor adjustments.
I'd mention playing with primary and secondary spring, but seeing as your kit is from Dave, you should be good in the spring department.
You know what would be really helpful is if you posted a video of your tach with the rpm showing a full run to speed.
Also, post a picture of your weight set up, or at least tell us the amount of weights you have in the heel, mid, and tip.

As far as waiting to try adjustments in the sand? Someone will have to chime in on how much of a difference that will make goin from big horns to paddles.
I know for myself, I run the stock bighorns in the sand. Any adjustments I make in the asphalt, usually translates well in the sand.

 

I talked with Dale yesterday and made a couple changes to the weights. It helped it get to 8400 RPM but I don't feel like it's getting there quick enough. Is that controlled by the springs or weights? It doesn't hit 8400 until 55-60 mph. With the stock clutch it would hit 8250 rpm, but a lot sooner when I nailed it....

 

Another thing to consider when clutching...is that with a stock ecu...the throttle plates start to close after 8400 rpm to protect the motor. This reduces power. Also, if you clutch for a rpm lower than 8400...and you are running on a long straight...the stock ecu starts to close the throttle plates after 78 mph, to limit speed.

The solution is to have Benchmark re-flash your ecu to raise the rev limit to 9500, and the top speed to 90.

Then clutch the car so it turns about 8800 rpm or so...You will definitely notice a difference in acceleration and top speed.

Chris

 

Another thing to consider when clutching...is that with a stock ecu...the throttle plates start to close after 8400 rpm to protect the motor. This reduces power. Also, if you clutch for a rpm lower than 8400...and you are running on a long straight...the stock ecu starts to close the throttle plates after 78 mph, to limit speed.



The solution is to have Benchmark re-flash your ecu to raise the rev limit to 9500, and the top speed to 90.



Then clutch the car so it turns about 8800 rpm or so...You will definitely notice a difference in acceleration and top speed.



Chris

I didn't think about this. Thanks.

 

12rzrs
That is great that you made forward progress. You may want to try going in the same direction until you achieve the desired RPM. I am no expert, but springs do tend to make a significant difference. I was having the same problem in my rig, but my 1000 is turbo. With the limited spring availability I have on hand, (3 different primary springs and 2 secondary springs), I resorted to trying the stock primary spring and stock secondary spring. So basically all I have on is a weight kit on the primary and I have to say it runs great it has great pick up and gets to shift out and max RPM very quickly. For people that are in question, there is literally zero belt tracking on the primary with this combo. Just a suggestion to try your new weight set up on the stock springs. Again, I am limited in experience but I've tried allot of combinations and this is where I am, and always looking to improve!anybody else chime in, I could learn a thing or two as well!

 

I agree with thry the stock springs. I played with my 900 clutchs WAY to much. Had same issue as OP. Why wont this thing jump in rpm and hold like stk with the clutch kit? Well after 9 springs I tried stk why not? I finaly got it to behave like I wanted. Reasonable engaugement jumps quickly to shift out holds in range. It took an afternoon to finish dialing weights. The stock parts dont always need replaced- remember they have been clutching for a long time. Yes there is meat on the bone for improvement as anybody with any skill can buy any unit and they have to CTA. As far a an answer to the tech aspect of your question. The WEIGHT of your tires will play a bigger factor than drag. If your blasters are LIGHTER the motors rpm will increase on same clutching. You will lose top speed due to DRAG from paddles. For rpm try your stk primary spring pull a small amout of weight from tip. This will raise rpm accross the shift. If you overshoot your shift out add weight back to mid. If you want to up your hole shot add it to the base(heel). If its lazy out of the hole pull weight from heel. Light tips raise rpm quickly but will reduce top speed if TO light. Heavy heel will improve initial shift speed given quick hole shot. To heavy gets lazy. Mid is holding shift out. Im not an expert either but I did stay at a holiday in once

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CB-BLR
excellent point! Do you have experience with the valve train holding up well, or know the pro star to hold up well that high in the rpm band on the stock engine components? That would be great to eliminate the butterfly's playing games.

 

Here is a video of the rpm. It doesn't seem like it's hitting peak fast enough.

 

Wow I'm confused now! I called and talked to dale at dirty dawg some more and he is telling me now that the stock clutch would hold at 8250 RPM's because the belt was slipping. He said that it is correct the way it is like the video above?? I have read a bunch saying that the peak HP is at 8300-8400 rpm, I don't hit that until 60-70. I never go that fast in the sand! I sure hope this thing performs different in the sand!

 

If the tach isnt eratic and the shiftout is consistant I dont think its slipping. I guess I will say this-in my experiances with cvt's these general rules hold true.
1. A heavier primary spring will increase rpm's and "stall" (engaugement) rpm
2. A weight with a light tip will rev faster and higher
3.a stiffer secondary spring will increase belt pintch and raise rpm because it takes more force to ovetcome and spread sheeves
4.takinking weight from bottom will change holeshot and have some effect on shiftout
5.mid weight has some effect on rev but has more effect on shiftout rpm.
If you want it to behave like stock try som of the stock parts. Cost nothing. Most kits have a spring that is stiffer at start and softer compressed than stk. This = higher stall faster shiftout but LOWERS shift rpm. So you want a spring that is as stiff or stiffer compressed than stk with a tip lighter than stk to achive higher rpm. Hope that helps a bit.

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Helpful info. I wasn't unhappy with the way it acted stock, I just wanted more power, specifically down low. The dunes we ride here aren't very tall but steep with g-outs at the bottom. You can't go at most of them faster that 10-15 mph then punch it once you get past the g- out. I don't care much about top speed. I just expected the clutch kit to make it hit 83-8400 RPM's pretty quickly once I nail it.

 

I guess to be clear my main question here is: Would it be beneficial to hit 8300-8400 RPM's earlier than it is currently, and what should I change to do that? I'm not sure what grams the weights are, but it is currently set up with ( thick steel bolt with 2 thick washers and 1 thin @ base, green bolt with 1 thick washer @ middle, and aluminum bolt @ tip.) primary spring was red with 2 different color stripes and was shorter but stiffer than stock. Secondary spring was lime green with silver stripe and seemed stiffer than stock.

 

I looked up the weights. The main piece weighs 52 grams, the heal weight is currently 9.3 grams, the middle is currently 4 grams, the tip is currently .8 grams. Total is 66.1 grams.

 

I dont have the xp1k but I run a turbo 900 abd wanted the same thing actualy the exact same even rpm(I have ho kit also). So I get were your at. We have the same type of dunes here(MI). You want the clutch to climb quick to peak poer rpm than hold for shift out idealy. The spring fir the primary will come to personal driving. I like low engaugement. You could pull a few grams from that bottom and drop the tip weight off. Try both stk and kit spring you will find they will have differant charicters-the numbers wont tell everythig about how they will behave in your machine. You just need to lighten the weights a bit to get what you want from them. A gr of weight on the tip(off) will yeild around 100 rpm through the curve, 2gr on the base will yeild about the same so 3x as much to get same result. 1gr mid will move shift out between 100-150 dependibg on engine torque. All of this is general not exact but it will get you whare you want to be. At this point its up to you and pationance. I made around 100 changes on mine before I was happy. But I think yours shiyld take less

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Thanks for all your input! That's why I love this site!

I am loaded up now and ready to leave for the dunes Friday. I plan on spending Friday getting it how I want it in the sand!

I am pretty clear on what weights do now and what to change to get results. Only things I don't completely understand are:

What do you mean by shift out (what the middle weight controls)?

And when we are talking about the primary spring, is the initial engagement all that spring controls? Because if so I think I would like the stock spring better. I notice with the ddp spring the primary kicks out between 10-12 MPH and if I give it has again before I stop it jerks. With the stock clutch the belt would completely disengage at less than 5 MPH.

 

Shiftout is the rpm the clutch hangs the motor at while it excellerates. Like stk it jumps to 8200rpm and holds it to x mph. 8200rpm is the shiftout rpm. The primary spring controls engaugement rpm and upshift speed. For upshif the LOWER the compressed spring load(1.25") the faster the upshift. Faster upshift lowers shiftout rpm. But the faster you upshift the quicker the car to the point whare you drop below peak power rpm(were you are now). For engaugement the HIGHER the relaxed spring load (2.5")the higher the engaugement.polaris uses a spring with a relativly low relaxed spring load(43lbs@2.5") and a high compressed spring load(180lbs@1.25") so low engaugement but higher shiftout. For a start on your clutch just try swaping out the primary spring with the stk one. See if that bumps the rpm up a bit. If not pull a few grams from the weights start at the tip. I will bet the spring in your clutch kit has a higher relaxed load rate and lower compressed load rate than stk. That would mean higher engaugement and faster shiftout. The stk spring would lower your engaugement and slow the shiftout a bit raising your rpm. Good luck and ride safe.

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Thanks a ton man! I hope to get it lined out Friday!

 

I have no idea how those winky faces got in there. Fat fingers and little buttons again.

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Good luck 12rzrs!
I'm sorry I couldn't get back sooner, nothin like a 7am- 10:30pm day lol. but seems broken-01 has some great experience with this. Also why I love this site! Happy riding!

Broken-01
Couple questions for you.
Any idea on what kind of power you are putting down? I'd love to know your weight configuration. I've got to the point where low gear will leave black marks on the pavement. High gear not at all. I'd say from just over 5mph it pulls like a freight train, below that in high, not so much. The obvious is that I am running a fairly larger turbo then most. So I've come to the conclusion that the first 5mph is probably due to that. I've been thinking about getting a jump start, say a primary spring that will engage at say 2500 as appose to 17-1800 now. I would think that would give me the low end snap I'm looking for.
I am running a turbo 1000, 88 grams per arm
Heel- 6gram bolt, 3 tungsten (10.5grams) total 16.5g
Mid- 6 gram bolt 3 thick steel (4.5 grams) total 10.5
Tip- aluminum bolt (.8 gram)

Just like you, I've tried so much, and would love to hear your side. Thanks again!

 

Well, I played with the weights some this weekend. Here are my findings:

I dropped the heal weight to 8.8 grams, dropped the middle weight to 3.0 grams, and the tip weight stayed at .8 grams for a total of 64.6 grams. This setup felt the best down low but felt like it was slipping the belt at mid range. When I pulled the cover there was a film of belt dust on the cover. (Beat my buddies 900 by 2.5 lengths in 330 ft this way ^^)

After that I changed weights back to the original way Dale set it up. 9.8 grams heal, 4.0 grams middle, and 1.3 grams at the tip. Total of 67.1 grams. This setup felt sluggish down low, but pulled better mid range. This is the way I left it to save my belt. (Beat my buddies 900 by 1.5 lengths in 330 ft. This way ^^)

I'm still stumped! I see guys spinning 30" tires on pavement with DDP clutches and mine won't even spin the stock tires! I have been talking back and forth with a guy that has the same exact springs and weights and me, only a different helix. He posted a picture of the black marks his 30" roctanes left! Maybe I need a different helix!

 

Move a gram from the heel to mid. Shoukd help hoke dhot and will bite more in the mid.

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Wow that spelling sucked. Pull a gram from the heel move to mid. Should help holeshot and give more bite in the mid.

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I will give it a shot!

 

Here is the setup I have now. I moved 1 gram from the heal to the middle from the way it came set up from dirty dawg. It feels better than anything else I have tried like this, but it still has a dead spot in the first 10 foot while the RPMs are coming up. It feels like it is bogging, and then it comes alive all the sudden! Dale recommended I check my fuel pressure? I would think I would have a code if it was off, since my machine is stock.

 

The rzr 's wont throw codes for fuel pres. My pump/reg failed and ran doggy pig rich. Toom it in and pressure was maxed at idel. The only other thing that comes to mind would be to much bit on the belt at launch. My stm has done the same thing with to much weight on the assist arms. Stk rzr doesnt have that feature so working around it is a little harder. Does the 1k have a torque limiter built in to protect the drive line?

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I really don't think it's the fuel pressure. I think you are probably right about too much weight, but it pulls better from 10 ft out to 70 MPH. I'm almost willing to have a little bog out of the hole to be better everywhere else. It felt better out of the hole when I lightened it, but I think it was slipping the belt mid range.

It is the same weight as dirty dawg shipped it to me now, except 1 gram is moved from heal to center. That should help belt grip shouldn't it?


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Hey guys I tried posting in a different clutching thread but got very little response from anyone. I came across this thread and a few of you seem to have a lot of clutching experience so here is my issue. I have the dirty dawg setup in my 1000 and it ran amazing for the first few hundred miles. I had to make one minor weight adjustment from where dale sent the clutch kit and the thing was spot on perfect I was super happy. I took a trip down to WV and basically rode the whole trip in low bc we were in the mountains and not going real fast bc it was dusty. Once I got home and tried to really open the machine up on straightaways it would respond normal until about 50mph. Once the machine hits 50mph there is a squealing that is so loud you have to stop bc it will blow your eardrum out and the machine will only go to about 8000rpms and its a super slow pull to 8300 and the noise is gut wrenching. I pulled everything apart and noticed I was missing the two black nylon washers that go on either side of the needle bearing and visually could see where metal on metal was rubbing and I thought for sure it was the problem. I called Dale he said put the nylon washers in and put OEM belt on it bc I have been running a gates carbon belt for the last few hundred miles since I put the clutch kit in. The spider nut was checked again and it is tight and the rollers in the clutch look fine. I am totally lost on what the problem could be and have lost a few valuable weeks of riding in prime time season. Anyone have any ideas? im thinking of just going to buy a OEM belt but I really have my doubts that is the problem bc my machine ran perfect for a few hundred miles with the gates belt with no issues. It seems to me to be a spring or weight issue but I don't know why I would have to adjust weights or springs when I already had it adjusted perfectly and it ran amazing. My dealer told me to check the stationary side of the primary by marking it with a marker and take it for a ride to see if its moving and if it is moving they claim I need a whole new clutch? Anybody have any suggestions?

 

Have you checked the roller bearing the belt rides on in the primary? I'm not clear on whare you are seeing metal to metal is it the weights? It sounds like your clutch is binding as it shifts out. I dont think its belts or weights unless they are missaligning on the pins. Any chance the spider is binding on the main shaft or bushing? Just a few thoughts

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Yep. Moving it to the mid will increase the shift out and bite in the mid range. I dont think your fuel is an issue either to be honest. The only other thing you could try is pull one washer from the heel to lighten just that area. It wont affect mid or top that much or change the bite it has in the mid so your belt shouln't slip on top. It will get it off the line faster and let the belt slip on the very bottom. The other option is swap the spring for one thats just a bit stiffer on the open load(2.5" measurement). But sounds like the rest is on target.

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Guess I should say swap a thick washer from the heel for a thinner waser (3gr for 1gr) so you would have a heavy and light in the heel insted of 2 thick. Small change but it would relieve that bog.

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Sorry I wasn't clear where the metal on metal was. it was on the outside primary sheave where the bearing sits in between the sheave plates. It was caused by the nylon washers not being in between the bearing and the sheave. I had my dealer check the spider nut and they said it was fine. I also went to a different dealer got the spider nut tools and checked it myself and it was totally fine. I talked with another guy that said it sounds like flat spots in the rollers. What do you mean by misaligning on the pins?

 

I was wonder if there was enogh play for the weights to shift or twist on the pin. Part of the issue is with out those washers your belt clearance is off. Flat rollers wil create friction and squeel so that would be a good place to check. How many total miles on the clutch?

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