Has anybody retrofitted the front sway bar from a Fox edition XP 1000 onto a non-Fox machine? How does it mount at the chassis and arms? Any detailed pictures would be great. Part numbers?
-TJ
-TJ
tjZ06
Fox Edition front sway bar on non-Fox XP 1000?
I dont think it will work without a fair amount of fab/welding theres brackets welded onto the frame on the Fox that arent on any other of the 1000 models, and the top A arm's are different, probably cost $1k to retrofit.
I suppose it might reach $1k if the factory parts are particularly pricey and you pay a shop to do all the work (including re-powdering the front upper arms). But for the DIY guy that can weld (or has friends that can) I imagine it can be done a lot cheaper if the factory parts are reasonably priced. Pulling the upper arms to finish-weld and re-powder after the sway bar brackets are tacked in is easy. The frame would obviously be touched up with a rattle-can (I can't imagine anybody is going to pull the car apart to re-powder the whole frame).
I'm hoping it's not more than a few hundred dollars. Any more than that and there are nicer aftermarket solutions.
-TJ
I'm hoping it's not more than a few hundred dollars. Any more than that and there are nicer aftermarket solutions.
-TJ
Shock Therapy has a front sway bar kit coming out soon. Maybe they'll see this and post some more details. If not, call them and ask about it.
Thank you Harry. Yes, we have a front sway bar kit. We developed it over 8 months ago but, honesty just haven't had the time to finalize all the details. Funny that the Fox edition comes out with one on it. Maybe we were on to something and should have got off our butt a little sooner but oh well.
There were two things that added up the most time when making this kit. One, it had to be completely bolt on, no weld on arm tabs, frame tabs or forcing you to buy a bumper to get the bar. This is completely BOLT on. The second time killer for us was adjust ability. In testing we found that it was very easy to have too much sway bar on the front and pick up a PUSH in the turns. The interesting thing (but not surprising thing) was that we really wanted more bar in the sand, short course and other high, side bite, high traction areas but wanted way less bar in the open desert or fire roads or trails. For this reason our sway bar has multiple holes to adjust the stiffness as well as an adjustable arm clevis. You can use the sway bar holes to make big changes in bar rate or use the arm clevis (moving it up or down the arm 2") to make smaller, tuning changes. Infinite adjust ability.
This bar makes the RZR so stable, especially at high speeds. No wallowing side to side and it tracks straight as an arrow. The loss of body roll in the front is serious confidence builder. You know exactly what your RZR will do when you throw it into a corner now. Now, you can stop some body roll with valving and spring but if you do your ride will get STIFFER. No way around it. With this you can keep a plush ride AND eliminate body roll. The only negative a sway bar has is in a full, independent, cycle situation like rock crawling or sideways bumps. But, if your rock crawling all day then disconnect the bar or run it full soft. Sideways bumps are less than 10% of what you drive over. We would rather improve 90% of what you do and loose on 10% of the ride than stiffen up your shocks or springs and loose ride quality over 90% of what you do just to help 10%. We just got back from the Mint 400. All of the fast teams were running front sway bars bolted to the front bumpers. Clearly there is something there that all of you can take advantage of on your RZR's.
Some of our parts are out at plating and should be back next week some time. We will have 25 kits in stock then and will have our pricing done too. It will be between $500 - $600 for the kit. We will let you know when they are ready and also put them on our site too. Here are some pictures of the kit on our test car. Have a great Monday.
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There were two things that added up the most time when making this kit. One, it had to be completely bolt on, no weld on arm tabs, frame tabs or forcing you to buy a bumper to get the bar. This is completely BOLT on. The second time killer for us was adjust ability. In testing we found that it was very easy to have too much sway bar on the front and pick up a PUSH in the turns. The interesting thing (but not surprising thing) was that we really wanted more bar in the sand, short course and other high, side bite, high traction areas but wanted way less bar in the open desert or fire roads or trails. For this reason our sway bar has multiple holes to adjust the stiffness as well as an adjustable arm clevis. You can use the sway bar holes to make big changes in bar rate or use the arm clevis (moving it up or down the arm 2") to make smaller, tuning changes. Infinite adjust ability.
This bar makes the RZR so stable, especially at high speeds. No wallowing side to side and it tracks straight as an arrow. The loss of body roll in the front is serious confidence builder. You know exactly what your RZR will do when you throw it into a corner now. Now, you can stop some body roll with valving and spring but if you do your ride will get STIFFER. No way around it. With this you can keep a plush ride AND eliminate body roll. The only negative a sway bar has is in a full, independent, cycle situation like rock crawling or sideways bumps. But, if your rock crawling all day then disconnect the bar or run it full soft. Sideways bumps are less than 10% of what you drive over. We would rather improve 90% of what you do and loose on 10% of the ride than stiffen up your shocks or springs and loose ride quality over 90% of what you do just to help 10%. We just got back from the Mint 400. All of the fast teams were running front sway bars bolted to the front bumpers. Clearly there is something there that all of you can take advantage of on your RZR's.
Some of our parts are out at plating and should be back next week some time. We will have 25 kits in stock then and will have our pricing done too. It will be between $500 - $600 for the kit. We will let you know when they are ready and also put them on our site too. Here are some pictures of the kit on our test car. Have a great Monday.
I have a question that I have yet to see anyone talk about of any of the after market front sway bars. Can the the tube it attaches to handle the fatigue of being pushed and pulled on constantly. I ask this because my Sportsman 850XP had problems with the rear sway bar breaking the lower a-arm in half where it attached. I finally had to reinforce the entire length of the tube to stop the problem. I'm sure that most people that use it are running stronger a-arms but what about the factory thin metal arms. I noticed that shock therapy's system attaches closer to the center than the some other systems out there. This will cause even more stress on the arm and bushing, possibly even breaking the mount on the frame if it is not reinforced. Anyone have any long term testing on these systems.
There are no torsion bars for the RZR, all are sway bars.
A sway bar connects the A-arm (or trailing arm) from one side of the vehicle to the other side, but is free to rotate on it's chassis mounts. When one wheel rises or falls, the sway bar transfers this vertical motion to the other wheel to keep the RZR "flatter" in the turns.
A torsion bar is similar in appearance, but serves a different function. The torsion bar is mounted to the chassis in the center (so that it cannot rotate), and is actually the spring for that corner of the car. All suspension loads that would cause a suspension coil spring to compress (as you have with the RZR), would instead cause the torsion bar to flex (acting as the spring). Torsion bars are commonly built with removable arms to allow the torsion bar (spring) to be changed, as you would change a regular coil spring (to get different spring rates or replace a worn spring).
I think that much of the confusion between "sway bar" and "torsion bar" comes from their appearance. Sway bars are commonly made as a one-piece, bent bar. One-piece sway bars are very strong (that's what's on every car you own). Torsion bars are commonly made with removable arms. However, for racing, three-piece sway bars are available (they look just like a torsion bar). These three-piece sway bars offer the added adjustability of allowing the racer to change the center bar from softer to stiffer to match each track. If optional rate center bars are not available, then there is no benefit in running a three-piece sway bar.
A sway bar connects the A-arm (or trailing arm) from one side of the vehicle to the other side, but is free to rotate on it's chassis mounts. When one wheel rises or falls, the sway bar transfers this vertical motion to the other wheel to keep the RZR "flatter" in the turns.
A torsion bar is similar in appearance, but serves a different function. The torsion bar is mounted to the chassis in the center (so that it cannot rotate), and is actually the spring for that corner of the car. All suspension loads that would cause a suspension coil spring to compress (as you have with the RZR), would instead cause the torsion bar to flex (acting as the spring). Torsion bars are commonly built with removable arms to allow the torsion bar (spring) to be changed, as you would change a regular coil spring (to get different spring rates or replace a worn spring).
I think that much of the confusion between "sway bar" and "torsion bar" comes from their appearance. Sway bars are commonly made as a one-piece, bent bar. One-piece sway bars are very strong (that's what's on every car you own). Torsion bars are commonly made with removable arms. However, for racing, three-piece sway bars are available (they look just like a torsion bar). These three-piece sway bars offer the added adjustability of allowing the racer to change the center bar from softer to stiffer to match each track. If optional rate center bars are not available, then there is no benefit in running a three-piece sway bar.
I believe the guys at Shock Therapy have done a pretty good job explaining the pros and cons of adding a sway bar to the front of this car. They have also done a good job conveying their experiences during testing, explaining where they believe the most benefit will take place.
I don't need a company to tell me "absolutes" like: "we are the best" or "outperforms the competition" or "the most adjustable sway bar on the market".....none of these can really be quantified, as this is opinion. By the way, what is the benefit if a "true torsion bar"? Why is this better??? Beats me.....
But if these statements sell units, then they have done their job!
By the way, what company is going to say "my product is second best" or "kinda outperforms the competition"??
Statements like what Shock Therapy have provided, give me so much more information than the "bold" statements made by other builders/vendors. The information provided by Thunderhawk and Shock Therapy is sound. :clap:
What one should do is READ what is being posted and then ask questions.
The whole idea of adding a front sway bar on these cars is still in the infancy stages, so not many recreational guys have them yet. Search around the internet, the Polaris sway bar isn't even offered yet on any part list that I could find. Now that Polaris has offered it on the Fox Edition, sure, the aftermarket will step up with palatable offerings.
Good luck in your hunt for "absolute" information!
Oh.....I'll leave with these life long questions....
Is it....less filling or does it taste great??
Which is better?? Coke or Pepsi??
What came first?? The chicken or the egg??
I'm sure one will be able to find a definitive answer to each of these questions, without opposition.
:rofl3::rofl3:
I don't need a company to tell me "absolutes" like: "we are the best" or "outperforms the competition" or "the most adjustable sway bar on the market".....none of these can really be quantified, as this is opinion. By the way, what is the benefit if a "true torsion bar"? Why is this better??? Beats me.....
But if these statements sell units, then they have done their job!
By the way, what company is going to say "my product is second best" or "kinda outperforms the competition"??
Statements like what Shock Therapy have provided, give me so much more information than the "bold" statements made by other builders/vendors. The information provided by Thunderhawk and Shock Therapy is sound. :clap:
What one should do is READ what is being posted and then ask questions.
The whole idea of adding a front sway bar on these cars is still in the infancy stages, so not many recreational guys have them yet. Search around the internet, the Polaris sway bar isn't even offered yet on any part list that I could find. Now that Polaris has offered it on the Fox Edition, sure, the aftermarket will step up with palatable offerings.
Good luck in your hunt for "absolute" information!
Oh.....I'll leave with these life long questions....
Is it....less filling or does it taste great??
Which is better?? Coke or Pepsi??
What came first?? The chicken or the egg??
I'm sure one will be able to find a definitive answer to each of these questions, without opposition.
:rofl3::rofl3:
Everything is a compromise. There is no absolute. I road raced pro series Speed World Challenge, Rally & circle track. Own a performance shop. People pay me to build & set up cars. I have a history with sway bar set up.
I use my RZR as an awd rally crosser more than a Trophy Truck or Sand Rail. I want front & rear bars I can adjust adding as little weight as possible. Cornering faster is my goal. Mudders or Rock guys shouldn't be in here.
Shock Therapy guy seems to have real world experience. I Ice raced with guys with his rear bar & they say its a big help. I don't like the solid bar because of weight. Spent a lot of money saving weight over the years. Shock Therapist mentions needing solid bar for strength in extreme side loads from off road. Makes sense. Compromise. If I was in desert, dunes or MX track probably go that way.
Unsprung & overall weight is an advantage of torsion bar style with aluminum arms. Probable strength compromise.
I dont understand Rath rate adjustability unless I'm missing something. Adjustable end links only balance out side preload.
My current suspension compromise set up uses stock shocks,springs, rear bar corners hard & flat with almost zero added weight. Wont rip across a desert worth a crap. Compromise.
I use my RZR as an awd rally crosser more than a Trophy Truck or Sand Rail. I want front & rear bars I can adjust adding as little weight as possible. Cornering faster is my goal. Mudders or Rock guys shouldn't be in here.
Shock Therapy guy seems to have real world experience. I Ice raced with guys with his rear bar & they say its a big help. I don't like the solid bar because of weight. Spent a lot of money saving weight over the years. Shock Therapist mentions needing solid bar for strength in extreme side loads from off road. Makes sense. Compromise. If I was in desert, dunes or MX track probably go that way.
Unsprung & overall weight is an advantage of torsion bar style with aluminum arms. Probable strength compromise.
I dont understand Rath rate adjustability unless I'm missing something. Adjustable end links only balance out side preload.
My current suspension compromise set up uses stock shocks,springs, rear bar corners hard & flat with almost zero added weight. Wont rip across a desert worth a crap. Compromise.
Any chance you make a piece to allow these to work with superatv high clearance lowers? If so I would be very interested.
thanks,
thanks,
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