Brother had a noise and vibration in the front of his brand new xp 1000 so we got to checking it out and narrowed it down to the front diff with a mechanics stethoscope. Pulled it apart along with a 2014 xp1000 diff i installed on my old xp900 that sounded good. After comparing to 2 diffs found that the 2014 had .026 gap between the pinion gear and housing. The 2015 only had .010 gap. Found a shim on the 2015 diff between the pinion bearings and pinion gear. Pulled the shim out which gave it the same amount of clearance as the 2014. Put diff back together, installed it in rzr and the noise and vibration is 100 percent gone.
brianmiller558
Fix for the xp diff noise vibration
Brother had a noise and vibration in the front of his brand new xp 1000 so we got to checking it out and narrowed it down to the front diff with a mechanics stethoscope. Pulled it apart along with a 2014 xp1000 diff i installed on my old xp900 that sounded good. After comparing to 2 diffs found that the 2014 had .026 gap between the pinion gear and housing. The 2015 only had .010 gap. Found a shim on the 2015 diff between the pinion bearings and pinion gear. Pulled the shim out which gave it the same amount of clearance as the 2014. Put diff back together, installed it in rzr and the noise and vibration is 100 percent gone.
Attachments
Forgot to mention that we put the spacer back but installed it between the pinion bearing and the snap ring.
Great info! Just looked at the service manual and they don't even show this washer in the parts diagram for the front diff. I wonder why it's even there? Did you happen to compare the actual pinion gear to see if one was longer than the other? Correct me if I'm wrong but by placing the washer on the the other side of the bearing you are pulling the gear further out of the housing?
It was my Rzr we were working on.
To answer your question, by having the shim installed between the bearing and the pinion gear it actually pushes the gear further into mesh with the ring gear because the outer race of the bearing seats in the housing and the inner rides on the pinion gear.
It was an extreme difference in sound and feel just on the bench but when we test drove it with the shim moved to the back of the bearing it was night and day.
To answer your question, by having the shim installed between the bearing and the pinion gear it actually pushes the gear further into mesh with the ring gear because the outer race of the bearing seats in the housing and the inner rides on the pinion gear.
It was an extreme difference in sound and feel just on the bench but when we test drove it with the shim moved to the back of the bearing it was night and day.
That would very difficult to do. Technically your supposed to manually turn the ring gear so that it turns the pinion gear. Your also supposed to apply slight resistance to the pinion shaft while turning the ring gear. All of which would be nearly impossible on a Hilliard style differential.
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Right, your are using the pinion shaft to turn the ring gear. Which is backwards from how contact pattern is supposed to be done. Or at least how every manual I have says to do it.
Also, have you been able to actually locate any documentation on what proper pattern of a straight cut cast gear set is? Unfortunately with the irregularity of the teeth on the ring and pinion I don't think you will ever be able to set these up using a contact pattern based method. The contact is going to vary wildly causing you to chase your tail.
In my opinion setting the backlash with a dial indicator, or good ol fashioned "feel" is the best or only option for determining proper pinion depth.
Glad your experimenting though.
Also, have you been able to actually locate any documentation on what proper pattern of a straight cut cast gear set is? Unfortunately with the irregularity of the teeth on the ring and pinion I don't think you will ever be able to set these up using a contact pattern based method. The contact is going to vary wildly causing you to chase your tail.
In my opinion setting the backlash with a dial indicator, or good ol fashioned "feel" is the best or only option for determining proper pinion depth.
Glad your experimenting though.
Not to step on toes....
Most folks couldn't begin to follow what you two are "talking" about, some of us can however. Just my 2c, would be a HUGE deal if we could figure out a fix for this front diff issue and knowledge like yours is greatly appreciated. Its why I joined these forums. It sucks to have two folks with your all's knowledge and just not work together on it.
anyway, back to the topic of this thread
Most folks couldn't begin to follow what you two are "talking" about, some of us can however. Just my 2c, would be a HUGE deal if we could figure out a fix for this front diff issue and knowledge like yours is greatly appreciated. Its why I joined these forums. It sucks to have two folks with your all's knowledge and just not work together on it.
anyway, back to the topic of this thread
Disclaimer: we are not telling everyone to run out and tear their diff apart. We just wanted to share what we learned by comparing a "familiar stock" 14 differential with these noisy diffs that have been discussed. We don't claim to be differential experts, only desperate Rzr enthusiasts that wanted a more enjoyable ride. I do believe that this was an assembly line mistake and I DO NOT believe that Polaris is setting individual pinion depth on each differential. Case in point is the xp900 has no room to shim either direction.
Just my .02.
In my opinion a front diff is going to wear out faster if it is vibrating and rattling so bad that it making driving a brand new rzr not enjoyable. We tried some different things on the bench and pulling the shim made it smooth and quit which in turn makes driving the rzr enjoyble. Figured we would take our chances.
To get back to my original post we will keep posting an update on progess. And to be clear the pinion only got move .016 to end up with .026 clearance between pinion gear and the housing. Simple test and didnt cost any money to buy parts that may or may not fix the problem. If anyone else tries this please keep us posted on your results so we can all maybe benefit from this.
Shade tree mechanic? Shoot son, I work in a mud puddle by a plywood hut under an overpass. Lol.
Thanks for sharing your findings XPRT. Sounds like your new aluminum Sprague will be the ultimate fix. [emoji106]
Thanks for sharing your findings XPRT. Sounds like your new aluminum Sprague will be the ultimate fix. [emoji106]
opcorn: I hope that there is a fix soon. Get mine by end of this week from getting the cage done and would love to fix the front diff before our first trip with this thing. If it's the shim or the Sprague (Following that thread as well) I'm good as long as this can of rocks noise goes away. Thanks to all who think outside the box and are helping the rest of us with a future solution. Thank you. :clap:
Can someone confirm that this washer is NOT supposed to be in there? I mean if the manual isn't showing it would there have been a bulletin letting the assembly line know that they should start putting them in there. As such, all the Polaris Service departments also receiving this bulletin talking about putting the washer in there. Maybe it was oversight and someone was putting them in there and shouldn't have been? Time will tell right. I just know the noise drives me nuts and doesn't instill a sense of safety that's for sure.
if it is indeed a shim then some diffs will have them some will not
The assembly line only cares if they are in spec or not, and the specs on these front diffs (from what I have read here thanks to XPRT) are pretty "loose"
That's the point of a shim, measure pinion depth, add shim if needed....
Once we have a correct way to rebuild these things, keeping a good gear lash and eliminating the weak links and noise...then I will start tearing into our new machines.
My 2014 2 seater is quiet and I mean quiet.
My wife's 2015 4 seater makes some ratcheting noises up front at all times...this is for sure
This is no Honda!! When it comes to qc and production assembly these Polaris machines are lacking. They have been since I had my first one a 2 stroke 250cc 4x4 with three chains to make the 4x4 work, then a 2000 Sportsman 500 with ATF in hilliard wheel hubs...what a pita those designs were! But guess what, with innovation sometimes you take a gamble...PII is still ahead of the game in the UTV race, leading the way..leaders sometimes have to take chances to get product to market. Polaris has done a good job of learning from their mistakes for the most part. The new line of sleds is innovative to say the least...again..Polaris leads the game in the snow too
Where they lack the aftermarket comes to the rescue, its the same with Jeep, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc...... they all have a thing or two on each vehicle we would each jump at a chance to re design..
plastic sprauge carrier, aluminum body rear shocks with aluminum adjust collars????? WTF??????
keeps the aftermarket hopping and my wallet empty! that is for sure
The assembly line only cares if they are in spec or not, and the specs on these front diffs (from what I have read here thanks to XPRT) are pretty "loose"
That's the point of a shim, measure pinion depth, add shim if needed....
Once we have a correct way to rebuild these things, keeping a good gear lash and eliminating the weak links and noise...then I will start tearing into our new machines.
My 2014 2 seater is quiet and I mean quiet.
My wife's 2015 4 seater makes some ratcheting noises up front at all times...this is for sure
This is no Honda!! When it comes to qc and production assembly these Polaris machines are lacking. They have been since I had my first one a 2 stroke 250cc 4x4 with three chains to make the 4x4 work, then a 2000 Sportsman 500 with ATF in hilliard wheel hubs...what a pita those designs were! But guess what, with innovation sometimes you take a gamble...PII is still ahead of the game in the UTV race, leading the way..leaders sometimes have to take chances to get product to market. Polaris has done a good job of learning from their mistakes for the most part. The new line of sleds is innovative to say the least...again..Polaris leads the game in the snow too
Where they lack the aftermarket comes to the rescue, its the same with Jeep, Ford, Chevy, Dodge, etc...... they all have a thing or two on each vehicle we would each jump at a chance to re design..
plastic sprauge carrier, aluminum body rear shocks with aluminum adjust collars????? WTF??????
keeps the aftermarket hopping and my wallet empty! that is for sure
I have a 2014 RZR XP 4 1000 and the front dif makes that annoying rattle. So your saying I just need someone to remove the shim or put on in?
I'm intrested as well mine make that a no Ying sound as well I now have over 500 miles with no issues besides the front diff noise that I would love to fix.
I have a 2015 rzr xp4 1000 and it makes the sound. Polaris changed the Carrier bearing but it still makes the noise and vibration around 35 mph when the 4wd switch is off. But if I run it with the 4wd switch turned on, the noise isn't there. Any ideas if this "fix" could be affecting mine as well?
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