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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Hello Cyborg.

Mopar: Nope. Local Chrysler dealer doesn't have it? I'll have to make a few calls. If it's not readily available I'll have to remove if from the list. I think it was Smooth that brought up the Subaru oil as an alternative, and that may be a reasonable fallback. More later.

Motul:
I'd had no recent interest in Motul only as it wasn't as available as I expect. I've used their 2T religiously many years ago and was relatively happy, but accessiblity was a hassle. However it's come up a few times now, so here are my thoughts on their ATV-SXS offering, a 10W-50 rated oil:

  1. It's a full Group IV, so that's good.
  2. For whatever reason it's viscosity range, at 168, is quite narrow. T-6, a Group III, is 169. Amsoil is 180, Redline 183, so Motul is not presenting anything compelling. That's going to show up in:
    1. A not so good cold performance. D97 pour point is -33. Not a very good number.
    2. 100C is 18.2, basically tied with M1 15W-50, and again well behind Amsoil and Redline.
  3. It's MA2 cerified, great for a motorcycle, but that tells us its lubricity is limited so it can still work with motocycle wet clutches.
  4. I've asked Motul for their "contact" form the zinc and phosporous levels, but I'm not sure we care.

It's a nice enough oil at the right price. But lets go back to the M1 15W-50. The two aren't identical in performance, but they are exceptionally close to each other, with M1 having a much better pour point and being under $5 a qt. Motul used to be pretty expensive. If it's more than maybe $6-7 a quart one has to ask "Why?"

If I wanted to spend more per OCI , which I'm not sure is warranted, the Amsoil (damn them) keeps looking like the champ. Nor do I really see a compelling interim step. If there was a better oil at a reasonable price, say under $10 a qt, I'd suggest it, but I've not seen anything compelling in between M1 and Amsoil.

All in all I think we're seeing the value of scale, mass marketing, and massive distribution in the Mobile, combined with some quality engineering per dollar, competing against a superior engineering, damn the expense perspective from Amsoil. It's gonna be really hard to knock Mobile off that perch. All but impossible so long as they continue to allow their engineers at least some quality. Amsoil's a far more easily breached target, that's just a question of engineering and investment into COGS, but Motul isn't even close so...

Moving on, the T-6 is a fine winter oil, but I'd not bother unless you were going out in really really cold weather. The M1 5W-50 is darn near T-6 in most cold performance ways and has better support for hot turbo bearings, so that's what I'll be using as my "cold" oil. Now if I was non-turbo then the T-6 is a winner. I'd also take the T-6 if I was using it regularly in below freezing temps. However I'd be careful at shutdown as it's giving up a more than I really like in the hi temp numbers. I'd want to let my turbo cool a bit.

Hope this helps

-d
 
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Yes! That is exactly what I was looking for. Rarely in Phoenix do we see below freezing and it’s only first thing in the mornings about 3-5 days in the entire year. I am a big boob, so no riding in temps that cold for me. However, during the winter days in the 50’s. I do ride a lot. So the Rotella (again XP 1000 non turbo) in winter will be the best option from all that I am reading.

The M1 15w-50 will be the summer oil. With temps in the 115-120 range and or heading up north to higher altitudes. So very grateful for all the help. I had been doing a lot of research myself. (How I stumbled onto these threads to begin with) your research and knowledge has helped a lot of us.

As for the mopar GL. I was trying to look beyond the dealerships. See if I could find it cheaper before I went that route.
 

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Yes! That is exactly what I was looking for. Rarely in Phoenix do we see below freezing and it’s only first thing in the mornings about 3-5 days in the entire year. I am a big boob, so no riding in temps that cold for me. However, during the winter days in the 50’s. I do ride a lot. So the Rotella (again XP 1000 non turbo) in winter will be the best option from all that I am reading.

The M1 15w-50 will be the summer oil. With temps in the 115-120 range and or heading up north to higher altitudes. So very grateful for all the help. I had been doing a lot of research myself. (How I stumbled onto these threads to begin with) your research and knowledge has helped a lot of us.

As for the mopar GL. I was trying to look beyond the dealerships. See if I could find it cheaper before I went that route.
I will be running the exact same formulas as you Cyborg because I'm in the same location and situation as you. I did find some, but have not bought yet.

this ones pricey



this one is 68227765 AB not AA I'm not sure what the difference is.



one more

 
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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
68227765AB is a replacement for the now discontinued 68227765AA. Same apparent specs. Looks like $14 a bottle is reasonable.
 

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I think I'll start doing oil sampling again as these threads seem to come up fairly often. I haven't sampled oil in my RZR yet, but I have sampled several oils in several vehicle usages and from that previous knowledge, I've been running Motul 300v 5w40 in my Polaris' as they are so high strung, just to get moving.

I'll be curious to see how well it's holding up, which I suspect is pretty well off. I essentially drive this thing like it's a race car, which I also have. Lots of high RPM and load, constantly. I got up to 9 track (100+ WOT miles per day, plus street driving and AutoX) days on my S2000 before I quit doing samples thinking I can probably change it now, despite oil still being acceptable and engine wear being only slightly elevated for the mileage used.
 

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I think I'll start doing oil sampling again as these threads seem to come up fairly often. I haven't sampled oil in my RZR yet, but I have sampled several oils in several vehicle usages and from that previous knowledge, I've been running Motul 300v 5w40 in my Polaris' as they are so high strung, just to get moving.

I'll be curious to see how well it's holding up, which I suspect is pretty well off. I essentially drive this thing like it's a race car, which I also have. Lots of high RPM and load, constantly. I got up to 9 track (100+ WOT miles per day, plus street driving and AutoX) days on my S2000 before I quit doing samples thinking I can probably change it now, despite oil still being acceptable and engine wear being only slightly elevated for the mileage used.

Updating mine with the oil sample I said I would do.


 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
That is indeed one heck of a racing oil. I do think your "sometimes more than we need" is probably accurate. it's possibly too thick for day to day use, and of course as a racing oil probably lacks detergents to keep things clean. I'm not going to deep dive this, but it's also a little odd in it's numbers. I think because this is an oil that was carefully engineered as true blue racing oil and it shows.

Everybody has their preferences, but if I was Merkules (different thread) or SHO I'd be taking a really hard look at this oil. As should anybody running their engine long, hard and hot at racing performance levels. A fantastic looking oil that purpose. Mind you we don't have their add paks so some of this is assumption, but still.
 

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I've never had a bad sample with the oil I've been using both on SxS' and my track car and hard driven (occasional strip cars) cars. Every time I've sampled, my wear metals are less than average with more than average miles on it, or less than average wear metal with less than average miles and 1,000 abusive track miles.

I may step up to a 50 weight with the turbo since it's going to be oil cooled.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Tough call. In a warm ambient situation, much less high heat, they are thin enough to not matter even at startup. But are you buying anything? Most are MA or MA2 (not really needed for the Harley crowd, but none-the-less), and why give up lubricity (which is what MA/MA2 does) when you don't have too? Basically they're an oil for an engine with such loose tolerances it needs to be thick at all times. And of course RPM's aren't something they concern themselves with either. They do tend to have strong add paks though.

But are they better oils for us? Not that I can see. For hot use it's hard to beat the Amsoil 5W-50. Solid high heat numbers re: viscosity, solid add pack, great base stock.

I don't honestly think it would hurt anything, but I'd not run out and buy some on purpose either.

btw, "full synthetic" is a really misleading term. Go careful believing that.

 

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I have 18K miles on my 2015 Rzr 1k. I only use Mobile One Racing 4T. It's a 10-40W full synthetic. Use it in my Goldwing motorcycle too. I live in nice warm Tucson, AZ. A 10-40 is all you need. No real scientific reason to use lighter or heavier weighted oils.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Nope. Shit was too much money to just go buy and I'm not going to use it. If you're using it and have a few ounces left that would make for a great data point.

tia

-d
 

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Nope. Shit was too much money to just go buy and I'm not going to use it. If you're using it and have a few ounces left that would make for a great data point.

tia

-d
I have a gallon of it as I am going to use it for my first oil change on my new XPT, this week. I don't plan to stay using it, as I think I am going to go with Motul 300v 15w50. I should have plenty of the PS-4 Extreme to sample.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Thanks SHO. Not much to say. We don't get viscosity index, 40C, or even D97 pour-point numbers so we can't tell much. It's clearly a 50, but otherwise we don't have enough to tell if it's a Group III or Group IV synthetic.

Hitting 18cSt for anything actually hitting 10W numbers is pretty good, so it's either a decent Group III or Group IV that's not engineer to have a lot of VI.

As to the add pak, the zinc is a little soft, calcium is stupid high. Moly is nice to see, but not much of it. This points to a decent, but not terrifically expensive oil.

Hard to know more, but as usual there are choices we know of that show us more. At the price point the Amsoil is a known quantity and exceptionally engineered. If I was spending $15 a qt it would be on that. As a top choice oil at a reasonable price the 15W-50 M1 continues to be the choice, and I'm still not sure there are better options at either price point.
 
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I will be changing out the oil this weekend and swapping for Motul 300v. The oil in the machine has 200 miles of some fast trails and cruising to those trails at sustained high RPM. I am curious to see how well it's holding up from shearing.
 
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