Wow that is quite a claim. I have not worked with either one, but both have good reputations...

 

I think opinions sometimes need to be kept to yourself.Just my opinion LOL

 

Ok jerrzr , just tell us how you have figured out clutching better. What were the problems and how did you do it different than Dale would have?

 

Rode with 2 guys last weekend that had RZR-S's with Dirty Dawg Clutches and they worked awesome as far as the engine breaking goes. I was following one all day in my Rhino and I was using the brakes on hills much more than he was.

 

My opinion:
If you post something like that, then you need to give information on how that opinion was formed. What parameters were improved over what DD delivered? How much of an improvement? Hard numbers not seat of the pants.

 

JERRZR, I am in the same boat as you. I am not happy with my clutch either, but like others have mentioned, you did not state what your problems are. You also did not say if you have talked to Dale. Give us some more information. I tried to, but I got timed out because my post was so long.
I am talking to Dale now, and he has sent me some new springs. I have talked to Bart also. I think Bart has a lot to share. I think that over time, if we give him a chance, he will get us where we want to be.
I just hope that in the future, vendors will provide more information with their kits.

 

ROT ROH!!!:shtf1::shtf1::shtf1::shtf1::shtf1::shtf1:

 

Wow, never talk down on a player, less u wanna be straight labeled as a hater!!!

There are definately better ways to say someone doesn't know what they r doing. But giving some evidence to back up these strong comments would be a start. I for one am not buying anything from Barts just for the nature of this politcal bashing stunt/ horrible business ethics..... :rm_thumbdown:

As a business owner I would never support any customer promoting me this way! :brick:

Ah well, thats point of a forum and America right? State your opinion right or wrong....

:bsflag:

 

FYI...bart doesnt sell anything...he is a member who does alot of testing on different performance items...ecu's/clutching/exhaust....he has helped many here figure out their clutch's...

 

& Bart has personally told me that he does not like or support bashing of vendors.

 

Bart is a stand up guy. So i garantee you bart has nothing to do with this post being made. Im working out a few bugs with my dirty dawg clutch on my 010 S but Dale has been nothing but helpful and willing to work with me 100%.

 

You really should give us some facts to support your claim. This is unfair to Dale.
Let's hear it.

 

To set the record straight, I'm just like the rest of you guys, I'm
a BUYER not a SELLER. I don't SELL my opinions or ideas,(sometimes I wish I could, since I'm RETIRED and could use some extra $$ to offset everything that I've tested :rofl3
I appreciate the comments made by a few that have either PM'd or talked with me on the phone.
As I attempted in indicated in my original post, I felt that there was a great deal of interest being expressed by members regarding clutching.
QUOTE
Anyone Interested in Clutching Overview?
--------------------------------------
No consideration given to any one vendor......However, information from all vendors should be viewed as tested, documented and factual.
Have gathered a considerable amount of information on springs, flyweights, helix's., belts, I would be willing to post pics., comparisons, and general tuning tips AND would like ALL to contribute info, if you have any....not opinions, just facts. IF this addressed properly, could be turned into a STICKY, to help anyone considering reclutching or for purchasing a clutch kit.
This is should not be considered a POLL, but rather experiences gathered from everyone that has tried various clutching solutions.
Post your opinions....

Many think of this as a secret or blackmagic...I for one can disspell that myth, NOT TRUE. It just takes TIME & PATIENCE and you can not just rely on posts that state "reallly put power on the ground". You must test & document your original setup BEFORE you can compare apples to apples with ANY VENDORS products, not matter what they are
(ie. exhausts,ECU's,clutching,tires, etc)

At the time I began my RE-CLUTCHING, not TOO many indivduals had considered or even needed that option, so I could ONLY depend on my pocketbook and many,many hours of experimenting.
I felt that if Vendors & Users would explain a bit, quantify and document some clutching ideas or concepts, that EVERYONE, could benefit.

As I have stated in the past, opinions are like a..holes, everyone has one, but no one likes one.

I for one do not like bashing vendors, but rather reading about or discussing
the FACTS, not seat of the pants reviews. Everyone's machine is different even though they have the name RZR as well as everyones riding style is unique.

As some responded to my post, I will attempt to contribute some facts & fiqures and REALLY HOPE that everyone would do the same. I can speak for myself and always follow the thought, THAT YOU'RE NEVER TOO OLD (or smart) to LEARN SOMETHING NEW, and the only way to do that is sharing INFORMATION, & information is power and a secret is ONLY that.:shhh:

NOW FOR THE REST OF THE STORY.....
If anyone wants me to be a vendor or sell ideas,
SEND $$CASH$$ not posts.:huepfenicon111:

Your Backyard Clutching TESTER..:scared2:
Bart the Black, naa,
Just
Bart

 

I'll give you a limited overview, Installed the DD kit, weighted as received from Dale. Zero to 50 +/- in 450 ft. Engine braking will slide the tires on slick clay. Very, very pleased with the product. Motor is stock except for a Super Trapp and Power Commander. Best bang for the buck.

Stevie P.

 

I'll give you a limited overview, Installed the DD kit, weighted as received from Dale. Zero to 50 +/- in 450 ft. Engine braking will slide the tires on slick clay. Very, very pleased with the product. Motor is stock except for a Super Trapp and Power Commander. Best bang for the buck.

Stevie P.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Stevie, Glad to see that you are the 1st to report

You're on the right track, but it would help to know the following:

Primary Spring (color and/or rating)
Flyweight Distribution in Total Grams, then Heel,Mid,Tip
Secondary Spring (color and/or rating)
Helix Change?

Rim/Tire Size/Type of Tires

Elapsed Time in Seconds for 450' run

Keep the faith, AND Keep Up the Good Work

 

I'll give you a limited overview, Installed the DD kit, weighted as received from Dale. Zero to 50 +/- in 450 ft. Engine braking will slide the tires on slick clay. Very, very pleased with the product. Motor is stock except for a Super Trapp and Power Commander. Best bang for the buck.

Stevie P.

Thanks Stevie, Glad to see that you are the 1st to report

You're on the right track, but it would help to know the following:

Primary Spring (color and/or rating)
Flyweight Distribution in Total Grams, then Heel,Mid,Tip
Secondary Spring (color and/or rating)
Helix Change?


Rim/Tire Size/Type of Tires

Elapsed Time in Seconds for 450' run

Keep the faith, AND Keep Up the Good Work[/QUOTE]

Installed the kit, as received. Don't remember spring colors and did not change weight distribution from the way Dale set it up (although they sent many optional weigh replacement components) They did provide, and I installed, a new Helix.

I run 14" x 26" Bighorns.

Performance measure was between signs in front of our house. Very unscientific but still indicative. Staged with the brake on and throttled up to breakaway then WOT to the goal. With a little tire spin, the RZR just squat and shot. I asked Dale to set it up for turn-to-turn acceleration on gas/coal/timber haul road riding. That's what I got and it's a blast.

 

I don't want to be offensive to anyone, but I am not sure that I can pull that off. After much testing I simply do not believe most of the posts about the DD kit improving acceleration. If someone made significant changes to their RZR or had very big tires then I can believe it. I have done atleast 100 runs testing acceleration for different clutch set-ups on my mild RZR. All have been methodically logged & analyzed. Some FELT much faster. None were. I would love for someone to convince me that I am wrong, but that will be done with hard numbers not seat of the pants.

 

That is exactly what Bart is talking about. This is not to bash vendors. It is obvious that this has worked for many years in snowmobiles, but a RZR is not a sled. Vendors need REAL LIFE feed back, not seat of the pants, WOW, it spins the tires now.
As I have said before, I am sure that Dale, or any of the other vendors, have a good working knowledge of the CVT. We are just in a new environment, and need to work out the bugs. If everyone tells them, "All is good," when it is not, then you have given then false information, and helped continue the cycle of poor performance.
CSG, you should share your information, just as Bart is trying to do. It will help many of us.

We are still waiting for JERRZR to qualify his remarks.

 

All of this clutch talk reminds me of jetting the carb on sport atv's, everyone has an opinion or recommendation, and usually they all say what they done works great.
In reality the only way to jet a machine or clutch a cvt for max performance is to take it to a professional or spend hours and hours of learning the process.

 

That's the point Gerard. Many of us do not live next door to a CVT guru. In defense of the vendors, they are not with us to see what our machine is doing. Some of use (me) may not be explaining our problem properly when talking to the vendor. The vendor may be relying on experience from a past application, that may, or may not work for the end user.
That is why this thread is so important, and should have vendor support, and feed back. Very little information is given with the kits, other than how to install. Tuning is where the problem is, and it is because there are so many different applications. The more documented information that we can provide for OUR given application can only help us as forum members, and the vendors who sell/set up our clutch.

 

Knowledge is power. I plan on learning how to clutch a CVT just as I have learned how to jet a carb. I would still like to see a sticky posted about the basic operation of a CVT, at this point I don't even know that.
This forum has been great for RZR owners and is my favorite forum, even though I enjoy my YFZ450 and Honda 599 as much, the forums don't compare to this one.

 

What he said^^^^^^X2

 

To me it would be better if you "Bart" or others tell us what you have learned from your tests, what worked and what did not. I will throw this out there. My DD kit came with a red w/white/black mark primary, lime green secondary spring, helix for big tires and 67 gram weights. It works well pulls hard but to me it engages to high at 18-1900 rpm, i wanted it to stay engaged to a lower rpm to keep the ebs working. Also since the010 has a new bigger beefier belt we havefound the secondary must be shimmed out a good bit to keep it from spinning the secondary while it is in neutral. What is your advice to lowering the engagement rpm and keep everything else working right?

 

Dave,
That's Exactly what the problem is....Just caused it worked for me,you or Roger doesn't mean that combo will work for everyone else. That's the very reason, that I'm going to start some threads about clutching. It's definately not because I know so much, but rather I have had the time to research, test and above ALL document & know exactly All the parameters involved. Watch for Further Develpments and I DO WISH I had your unit....., love the white and the S.
Bart

 

Now I am confused. I am sure that the new primary spring increased your initial lockup, although 18-1900 RPM doesn't seem that high. My confusion comes in with your remark about the ebs. Wouldn't the helix, and maybe the secondary spring control this?

 

The ebs is only engaged if the primary is above the engagement rpm, drop below engagement rpm, and it free wheels.Ebs with Stock black primary spring and stock weights worked at about 13500 rpm.

 

Well, can I ask a question here? It sems that all you riders are past the point that I'm not sure I'm at yet. I have a MCX-turbo RZR with over 3,000 miles on the system. I'm just running along here, fat, dumb and happy. Now when should I be concerned with my clutch? BigMike saidabout 2,000 miles ago. What will happen to get my attention? I know that mods were done by the installer when the kit was installed, don't know what. I bought the removal tool from Dale and plan to concider some thought to this over the slow season, but what now? I'm a hands on type of owner and hate to have my RZR down waiting for a "send and return" I recall you guys @ Moab going thru Garys Clutch and felt envious that not only that you had the parts, but the knowledge to do this,
John

 

If its working for you, why mess with it? At most take a look and replace anything worn ,belt or whatever with a same new part.

 

Well Johnpeq, if you are happy, there is not much to do.
1. Belt inspection
2. Check Drive and Driven Clutch Buttons and Bushings for wear
3. Check Drive Clutch Shift Weights for cracks/damage, and that the pins are free/no wear
4. Check Drive Clutch Spider Rollers and Roller Pins for wear
5. Check Drive and Driven Clutch Springs for wear, and proper tension.
6. Check the Sheave Faces for wear, and clean
7. Make sure your CVT system is sealed, and cooling properly

If you are happy with your set up, and all you want to do is inspect and service what you have, all you have to do is purchase a Service Manual...PN 9921278

 

I would rather be fat, dumb & happy!
I am skinny, dumb & never happy!
Life would be alot easier if I left stuff alone, but the grass on the other side always seems to have that glow about it...

 

Scott your EBS is in the helix,Gunrunner has the one way bearing in the primary.

 

I have the service Manual on line so that is OK. What I would like is to take the RZR to someone not so far away to have them drive it then tare it down to inspect and possibly upgrade for performance that I didn't know I was missing. This is probably more like a dream,
John

 

John....I can help you get that turbo/clutch tuned...lets get together sometime..