Polaris RZR Forum - RZR Forums.net banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I had the RZR up a trail with a little snow on it the other day and am not really impressed with the AWD system. For winter/slippery trail riding it sure would be nice to be able to put it in full time 4wd. The AWD system works great in the summer on loose dirt and rocks but on slippery snow that little bit of wheel spin required before engaging the front end really lets the back end start to slide downhill. I would think those Minnesota boys would know how to develop a better 4 wheel drive system on an offroad machine. Maybe it's because they are a bunch of flat landers out there and have never thought about going uphill on a 30% plus grade, off camber mountain trail. I have ridden my RZR around my neighborhood in snow plenty of times and had no complaints but getting it on a snow covered trail was a whole different matter. I have a 2013 570 base model, no turf mode and no power steering if that makes any difference in the AWD but I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Also, how long is the front axle supposed to stay engaged? It seemed that if I was going up a hill and hit a spot that I had to let off the gas and then get back on it, it would disengage the AWD until the rear slipped again. I assume that is operating normally. I also know there does not seem to be any work around to "lock in" the 4 wheel drive temporarily. Which is unfortunate.
 

·
Aspiring Perfectionist
Joined
·
4,272 Posts
It takes 1/20 turn of rear wheel slip to engage the front drive, hardly any at all, it will then stay engaged until the front wheel speed matches the rear wheel speed and the tension is released form the rollers (a throttle blurp, or stop ), even if you turn the switch off, it will still stay engaged until the tension is released from the rollers, it really functions quite well, but it doesn't drive exactly like a 4wd truck.

The problem you are seeing on downhill is from no throttle being applied to actually drive the front wheels, or so little that the rear wheel speed isn't fast enough to drive the machine, so you get the skipping effect and the machine starts to slide toward the path of least resistance.

Blurp the throttle to slip the rears & engage the front wheels before you start down hill, that will keep tension on the rollers and keep the front drive engaged, then keep a small amount of throttle in it while descending to keep the clutches engaged, and stay off the brakes.

In short...throttle up!

I've never been dissatisfied with the AWD operation in snow to answer your original question.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Good to know. I didn't have any issues going downhill since I didn't really need the engine braking where I was at, it was more blipping the throttle on the flats or when I was getting on it going up a hill. Guess I just need to keep my foot in it the entire way up the hill if I don't want the front diff disengaging.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,643 Posts
Another possibility is to change the tires. Make the rear tires an inch smaller or the front tires an inch larger. The system would think the rears are slipping, should stay engaged anytime above idle, I think. *Shouldn't* damage the front diff unless you get on dry pavement and still in AWD.

Sent from my S9+ using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Another possibility is to change the tires. Make the rear tires an inch smaller or the front tires an inch larger. The system would think the rears are slipping, should stay engaged anytime above idle, I think. *Shouldn't* damage the front diff unless you get on dry pavement and still in AWD.

Sent from my S9+ using Tapatalk Pro
For my self I wouldn't go that way. It puts too much steady pressure on the diff gears.

For the original question. Never been disappointed..floor it and the awd will stay engage. Just a joke but it works. On the other hand you could wire up the front diff so it can have juice( or in this case a ground has I can remember). I was about to go that way but never took the time to do it. It's easier when you have the wiring diagram. I have the service manual so I've kind took a glimpse at it to make it work.
 

·
Aspiring Perfectionist
Joined
·
4,272 Posts
Another possibility is to change the tires. Make the rear tires an inch smaller or the front tires an inch larger. The system would think the rears are slipping, should stay engaged anytime above idle, I think. *Shouldn't* damage the front diff unless you get on dry pavement and still in AWD.

Sent from my S9+ using Tapatalk Pro
For my self I wouldn't go that way. It puts too much steady pressure on the diff gears.

For the original question. Never been disappointed..floor it and the awd will stay engage. Just a joke but it works. On the other hand you could wire up the front diff so it can have juice( or in this case a ground has I can remember). I was about to go that way but never took the time to do it. It's easier when you have the wiring diagram. I have the service manual so I've kind took a glimpse at it to make it work.
That only bypasses the ECU to energize the coil, it doesn't effect the actual engagement of the drive at all. The rear wheels still have to slip. I can build a harness for you to do that if you like.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Another possibility is to change the tires. Make the rear tires an inch smaller or the front tires an inch larger. The system would think the rears are slipping, should stay engaged anytime above idle, I think. *Shouldn't* damage the front diff unless you get on dry pavement and still in AWD.

Sent from my S9+ using Tapatalk Pro
For my self I wouldn't go that way. It puts too much steady pressure on the diff gears.

For the original question. Never been disappointed..floor it and the awd will stay engage. Just a joke but it works. On the other hand you could wire up the front diff so it can have juice( or in this case a ground has I can remember). I was about to go that way but never took the time to do it. It's easier when you have the wiring diagram. I have the service manual so I've kind took a glimpse at it to make it work.
That only bypasses the ECU to energize the coil, it doesn't effect the actual engagement of the drive at all. The rear wheels still have to slip. I can build a harness for you to do that if you like.
I was on to energize the plate inside that engages the front diff.
 

·
Aspiring Perfectionist
Joined
·
4,272 Posts
Yes.... that’s all it does, it’s a magnetic coil that applies tension to the armature plate so when the rear wheels slip and overdrive the front, the sprauge will rotate and the the rollers will engage the ring gear. If you wire it direct, all you’ve done is bypassed the ECU sending a ground to energize the coil when the switch is on


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,643 Posts
Yes.... that’s all it does, it’s a magnetic coil that applies tension to the armature plate so when the rear wheels slip and overdrive the front, the sprauge will rotate and the the rollers will engage the ring gear. If you wire it direct, all you’ve done is bypassed the ECU sending a ground to energize the coil when the switch is on


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net
Just leave the AWD switch engaged. Much the same, except if you bypass the ECU you can do things like engage the AWD at full throttle and disintegrate the sprague.

Sent from my S9+ using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,643 Posts
Pete, gotta remember the Polaris AWD system is electrically enabled but mechanically engaged. Unless the rear wheels are slipping it won't engage. Caveat, if there's mechanical damage / malfunction in the front Hilyard diff, it can stay engaged, no matter what you do. Short of pulling the propshaft, anyway.

Sent from my S9+ using Tapatalk Pro
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
807 Posts
You also would have no proper braking if it was full time 4x4. If one wheel locked it would lock all wheels through the driveline. Not to mention the steering would be extremely difficult to turn because you no longer have a front differential to allow different wheel speeds while turning. Full time 4x4 with lockers is not all what its cracked up to be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Locking up on snow and locking up on dirt is a whole lot different story. I have a Colorado ZR2 and a Jeep Rubicon and can tell you that being locked up too much in snow is sometimes "not nice" Its a whole different driving scenario. You have to go out and "play" in a safe area to learn the locked up limitations.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Hondaracer, I believe you misunderstood what I was stating in my original post. I wasn't talking about having a locker or having permanent full time four wheel drive, I would prefer a four wheel drive system such as my truck or four wheeler have where you push the four wheel drive button and have power going to both front and rear differentials at the same time so that power gets to all four wheels and you do not have to wait for the wheel slip in the rear before the front engages. Not locked at all four corners.

A locker on the front axle can be helpful at times but I can count on one hand how many times I have ever felt the need to lock in the front end of any of my 4wheelers in over 10 years of owning wheelers with that option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
As far as I know the rear end is a spool, no diff. The front,I don’t know. How you would steer in snow with all wheels spinning. Thats why sleds have skis .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
288 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I can steer in snow with my 4wheeler in four wheel drive just fine, same with my truck. Snowmobiles have skis because they are designed to float on top of deep snow, not drive through 6-8" or less of snow.

I suppose my question should more have been why did polaris go with an AWD system that requires rear wheel slip before engaging the front end as opposed to what I would consider a standard 4x4 system that virtually every other manufacturer (Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda, CanAm, Arctic Cat/Texron) utilizes on their ATV's. I.E. you press the 4x4 switch on and you have power going to both axles the entire time the 4x4 is engaged.

Like I said, the AWD system works flawlessly when you are on flat ground cruising around in the snow but in my experience, if you are on an off camber i.e. side hill trail the AWD system allows the rear end to slide out to the downhill side more than I like before the front end engages. and helps to straighten you back out. I will not be inclined to take the RZR on any narrow trails in late fall or early spring when there is a couple of inches of snow and ice cover on the trails. Maybe if I had chains on the rear tires to help prevent the lateral movement. I also have good tires on my rzr, an almost new set of Tusk Terrabites.
 

·
Vandal
Joined
·
752 Posts
First of all if you are engaged and maintain throttle before getting to that sidehill the front will be driving when you get there and probably keep or help keep the back end from sliding. The only time the front dif is going to stop driving the front wheels is if you let it disengage by not keeping some throttle. Why did Polaris design it this way, because its the best overall utv 4 wheel drive system on the market. It was designed for numerous circumstances not just for riding in snow and for most circumstances it cant be beat IMO One other thing is that when you have a locker front diff your steering will be ridiculously hard when engaged. The Polaris system only engages when it senses that it needs to be engaged, so way less wear on the diff compared to the others AWD system. You can turn on Polaris awd system and ride with it on all day and its only going to engage when it senses slip, try doing that with a Crisco lock Can Am or one of the other brands you mentioned
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
916 Posts
It takes 1/20 turn of rear wheel slip to engage the front drive, hardly any at all, it will then stay engaged until the front wheel speed matches the rear wheel speed and the tension is released form the rollers (a throttle blurp, or stop ), even if you turn the switch off, it will still stay engaged until the tension is released from the rollers, it really functions quite well, but it doesn't drive exactly like a 4wd truck.

The problem you are seeing on downhill is from no throttle being applied to actually drive the front wheels, or so little that the rear wheel speed isn't fast enough to drive the machine, so you get the skipping effect and the machine starts to slide toward the path of least resistance.

Blurp the throttle to slip the rears & engage the front wheels before you start down hill, that will keep tension on the rollers and keep the front drive engaged, then keep a small amount of throttle in it while descending to keep the clutches engaged, and stay off the brakes.

In short...throttle up!

I've never been dissatisfied with the AWD operation in snow to answer your original question.


the only way to stop what you describe is to change the gear ratio in the front diff to closer match the rear


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,643 Posts
It takes 1/20 turn of rear wheel slip to engage the front drive, hardly any at all, it will then stay engaged until the front wheel speed matches the rear wheel speed and the tension is released form the rollers (a throttle blurp, or stop ), even if you turn the switch off, it will still stay engaged until the tension is released from the rollers, it really functions quite well, but it doesn't drive exactly like a 4wd truck.

The problem you are seeing on downhill is from no throttle being applied to actually drive the front wheels, or so little that the rear wheel speed isn't fast enough to drive the machine, so you get the skipping effect and the machine starts to slide toward the path of least resistance.

Blurp the throttle to slip the rears & engage the front wheels before you start down hill, that will keep tension on the rollers and keep the front drive engaged, then keep a small amount of throttle in it while descending to keep the clutches engaged, and stay off the brakes.

In short...throttle up!

I've never been dissatisfied with the AWD operation in snow to answer your original question.


the only way to stop what you describe is to change the gear ratio in the front diff to closer match the rear


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net
Or change your tire size.

Sent from my S9+ using Tapatalk Pro
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top