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Discussion Starter #1
So first off I want to share that I've tried the Dalton clutch kit with ZERO benefit and I tested and tested for about 300 miles then sent it back for a refund. I also rebuilt the Primary as Todd suggested something was wrong there and initially there was as I found the spider gear was loose and rebuilding it helped a little but not a lot.
I'm also running 30" tires but that really isn't a huge leap and I'm at 5,000 elevation and ride up to 10,000. I would consider myself a faster rider and I do tight trails as well as open desert and occasionally dunes.
Most recently I did installed the ACE 325 gear set for the 12% reduction which also helped the 0-30 acceleration but it feels like it drops off fairly quick after that. Oh, I also have a tune on the ECU but as most of you already know that did nearly nothing but I got it as a favor so out nothing.
Now I'm getting frustrated as I really feel my RZR should be quicker at least from 0-50 and the only thing I can think of is clutching.

Right now I'm also setup with the Polaris high elevation weights which is what it came with so I dont know what difference there would be running these from the stock weights. Maybe the stock weights would be worse and these are getting me all it's capable of giving, I dunno?

So what am I trying to fix here, well I want more punch/pull from a stop and out of corners. My 0-60 times are abysmal IMO around 11 sec and that is a lot slower than I've seen others posting, so clearly something is not right. I also notice my belt gets way to hot to fast as I can smell it after short distances before I really even start getting hard on it.

Now, though I'm considering SLP or AA clutch kits but not sure which one of those 2 is the better product or has the best customer service?
 

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Both AA and SLP have excellent customer service, I don't have any experience with their 1K kits, but i've ran both on my turbo, and it's pretty much a wash between the two from a performance standpoint, I've messed with many, many, combinations of things with both, and in the end, I just preferred the SLP for my riding, but the AA is still a good kit.

That being said... what is your shiftout RPM at 55 mph on a WOT run?

Clutching is all a matter of balance and fluidity between all the components involved, one thing will only work better over another thing if it's matched to work with everything in the system, but if your shiftout RPM is correct, and you're not slipping a belt or generating excessive belt heat...that's pretty much all she got.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
My RPM stall point is around 8500 which is around 65MPH then it climbs up to about 9200 or 70MPH and then I get the power steering warning light kicking on.
I've had clutching "gurus" tell me that is right on and others tell me that's too high........
 

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It's normally measured at 55 mph, but it would maintain that until 65 mp or so anyway. I think that's a little high for a 1k, I think it should be more like 82-8300 @ 55mph, which would mean you'd need a little heavier weight. And if you're smelling belt, then you're probably slipping the belt, which is definitely slowing you down. More punch out of corner will come from a quicker backshift, which a stiffer secondary spring will give you, and it would also give you more belt grip. Do you remember what weights and springs you were running with the Dalton kit?
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited by Moderator)
It's normally measured at 55 mph, but it would maintain that until 65 mp or so anyway. I think that's a little high for a 1k, I think it should be more like 82-8300 @ 55mph, which would mean you'd need a little heavier weight. And if you're smelling belt, then you're probably slipping the belt, which is definitely slowing you down. More punch out of corner will come from a quicker backshift, which a stiffer secondary spring will give you, and it would also give you more belt grip. Do you remember what weights and springs you were running with the Dalton kit?
I tried every variation under the sun with that Dalton kit, I worked directly with Todd until I think he tired of me and then directly with the owner of Dalton, I forget his name. In the end there was no combination of springs and weights that make a lick of difference from my stock setup.
 

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I can't guarantee you're going to have better luck with any other clutch kit, but AA or SLP are the two I'd steer you toward if you wanted to give another a shot. That belt slip is primarily what you need to get rid of, but after that, I think that's all you're gonna get man. Mike with AA i on the forum right now I just saw, @AftermarketAs what you think for this fella?
 

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My RPM stall point is around 8500 which is around 65MPH then it climbs up to about 9200 or 70MPH and then I get the power steering warning light kicking on.
I've had clutching "gurus" tell me that is right on and others tell me that's too high........
I have no clue what your clutch issue is, but this is entirely too high, while i have not seen 90 in my own RZR, I let out and not idea why you need to run there but I have only seen 8700 at 85 with mine and my shift speed is right on the money at 8400

Your reduction is surely going to move the rpm scale up and a kit will not change top speed rpm so with the new reduction you need to add more weight to the flyweights get the weight down.

Heavier weights pull hard but then flatten out.

So it sounds to me like you need more weight in your flyweights to grab belt better and get shift phase rpm down so you can accelerate better.

As far as the kits go, I think this is one of a handful out of tens of thousands of kits sold that I have seen any negative comments about a Dalton kit, they just work and when they don't there will always be some kind of outside source causing the issue.

Depending on the stock machine with stock tires, you will not get much of a difference, not supposed to, they are for when you add larger tires, high elevation or sand riding to change the shift rpm where it needs to be.

Todd
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Well sadly I was just unable to achieve any positive results from the Dalton kit but I'm quite certain there is still a need for some clutch tuning. Even more sadly though, I'm not rich so just throwing money at it until I find something that does work is not an option. That was one of the main reasons I chose to try out the Dalton kit and the owner was very gracious to me and did all he could from Canada to try and help, in the end as you know I sent it back.

This is one reason why I wonder if maybe I'm just fooling myself to think there is anything more that can even be gained from changing more parts out.

However, there are just to many people on these forums and others that claim data that is contradictory to that last thought which is why I'm pushing to attempt another try with something else.
It would be really nice if I had someone local to me that really knew WTF they were talking about with regard to clutching, then I could get this sorted out. The way things are going here though, by the time I actually get this fixed "IF" I get it fixed I'll most likely be that guy :) that I'm looking for.
Heck before I started this journey 8 months ago I knew nothing about this stuff and now I could take this stuff apart and rebuild it in my sleep. Plus removing the trans and regearing it on my own taught me a ton about these things.
 

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Grab a video like the one below, where we can see RPM & Speed of a 15-70 mph WOT mph run, or two if you can, on a neutral and tractable surface ( Asphalt, or 4wd on hardpack dirt ), see if anything seems abnormal, that can tell a lot sometimes. I think you might just need to add a little heavier weight now that you have gear some gear reduction in there...but i can't be sure without some sore of visual at least lol.

 

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Discussion Starter #11
Grab a video like the one below, where we can see RPM & Speed of a 15-70 mph WOT mph run, or two if you can, on a neutral and tractable surface ( Asphalt, or 4wd on hardpack dirt ), see if anything seems abnormal, that can tell a lot sometimes. I think you might just need to add a little heavier weight now that you have gear some gear reduction in there...but i can't be sure without some sore of visual at least lol.

Here you go.. and like I mentioned I was smelling belt after only 10 min of running up the street.
 

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Now we have something to work with, you do have a problem.

You have something binding/hanging, and a belt slip on top of it. It shouldn’t ever drop RPM like that, especially not 400 RPM. Your shift pattern is really screwy in general too, it’s revs slow, over revs at 50, then drops into full shift out, and starts slipping the belt up to the rev limit, and it’s very erratic as well.

It could be a number of things really, but First thing to comes to mind is the rollers or helix in the secondary is hanging and dragging, when was the last time you have your secondary apart? Are you still using the OEM square pucks? Have you noticed and brown haze on your clutch sheaves? Does your belt have any irregular looking wear on the bottom cogs?

I know you said you had issues with the spider in the primary, but you may very well have them again, or still have them too, that RPM is way high for that top speed, even with gear reduction.

I would go through your clutches very carefully and inspect and clean everything thoroughly before you move to buying more clutch kits, your problem doesn’t lie with clutch tuning at all, but clutch function.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Now we have something to work with, you do have a problem.

You have something binding/hanging, and a belt slip on top of it. It shouldn’t ever drop RPM like that, especially not 400 RPM. Your shift pattern is really screwy in general too, it’s revs slow, over revs at 50, then drops into full shift out, and starts slipping the belt up to the rev limit, and it’s very erratic as well.

It could be a number of things really, but First thing to comes to mind is the rollers or helix in the secondary is hanging and dragging, when was the last time you have your secondary apart? Are you still using the OEM square pucks? Have you noticed and brown haze on your clutch sheaves? Does your belt have any irregular looking wear on the bottom cogs?

I know you said you had issues with the spider in the primary, but you may very well have them again, or still have them too, that RPM is way high for that top speed, even with gear reduction.

I would go through your clutches very carefully and inspect and clean everything thoroughly before you move to buying more clutch kits, your problem doesn’t lie with clutch tuning at all, but clutch function.
Yea, Todd kept suggesting there was something else going on as well but I can't find it. I've taken the secondary apart a few times and I replaced the pucks with rollers at 1200 miles and everything in there seems to be working smoothly fomr what I can tell, but heck if I know once it's really under load..
Suppose I could take the clutches off and have them looked at but the trick there is finding someone who really knows what they are talking about.
 

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There is something else going on for sure. That’s not a normal shift curve for a CVT at all, it should rev quickly to xx rpm, and then hold that rpm, or slowly increase over a small span to full shift out, then from there, it will quickly climb to max RPM after it has fully shifted out, and that’s when you’ll get max speed, it shouldn’t ever have a drop in rpm like that, that is a certain sign of a problem.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This is really driving me nuts, I spent so much time and money trying to resolve this and I'm still no closer to where I was when I started.
Maybe I'd be better off just getting new Pri/Secondary clutches but dayum that's going to cost a bunch of $$$.
 

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This is really driving me nuts, I spent so much time and money trying to resolve this and I'm still no closer to where I was when I started.
Maybe I'd be better off just getting new Pri/Secondary clutches but dayum that's going to cost a bunch of $$$.
I’m in the same sorta boat with a belt heat issue in general lol, it’s pretty damn annoying, I agree.

I’d go through it again if I were you man, it might even be something little that got overlooked along the way.
 

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Is sending your clutches to Todd and option? If so he may see something going on with them that has been over looked. Hopefully you can get it resolved.


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