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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking at kits that engage the 4x4 when you flip the switch as opposed to factory that when you put it in 4x4 it does not do it until it detects certain conditions that it then applies the 4x4.

With rock crawling I feel like I want it in 4x4 when I hit the switch. I dont like the idea of higher wheel speed in the rear for it to them decide it wants to go into 4x4. This sounds like it would be unnecessarily hard on the driveline.

Thoughts?
 

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I have that kit installed on my 2019 Turbo S S4 and love it, got tired of my ass end trying to pass me all the time going down deep desents because the 4X4 only engaged when computer tells it too
2000 miles on the machine with out any issues with the kit.

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Discussion Starter #3
I have that kit installed on my 2019 Turbo S S4 and love it, got tired of my ass end trying to pass me all the time going down deep desents because the 4X4 only engaged when computer tells it too
2000 miles on the machine with out any issues with the kit.

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Is it the HESS motorsports kit?

Did it replace your factory 4x4 switch or is it in addition to?
 

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Is it the HESS motorsports kit?

Did it replace your factory 4x4 switch or is it in addition to?
Do not remember what brand it was I can look at the receipt when I get back home today, and if I remember correct the kit utilized my factory 4x4 switch.
I just unplugged all the stock wiring and left it incase the kit fails, and I can still resort back to the factory 4x4

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Discussion Starter #5
Do not remember what brand it was I can look at the receipt when I get back home today, and if I remember correct the kit utilized my factory 4x4 switch.
I just unplugged all the stock wiring and left it incase the kit fails, and I can still resort back to the factory 4x4

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Please let me know
 

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because the 4X4 only engaged when computer tells it too
I think you misunderstand how the Polaris AWD system works. When you place the AWD switch in the 'on" position it sends a ground signal to the ECU. If the RPMs are below 3200 the ECU sends a ground signal to the diff coil. At this point the ECU will not denergize the diff coil until the AWD switch is turned off. The hot side of the diff coil is powered straight from the fuse block when the key is in the 'on" position. After the coil is energized the lockup of the diff is a mechanical operation. There are numerous threads about how the Hillard diff works so I'm not going to go into the mechanics again. Read: Front Diff/AWD

Adding a AWD "override" switch ONLY bypasses the ECUs RPM safety limit. It does NOT control how the diff locks up. The diff will still lock and unlock based on differential wheel speed from front to rear. These "override" switches are about as useless as tits on a boar hog and try to justify the cost with false claims. Again, diff lockup is a mechanical action.

Your rear end "kicking out" is because of engine braking.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
I think you misunderstand how the Polaris AWD system works. When you place the AWD switch in the 'on" position it sends a ground signal to the ECU. If the RPMs are below 3200 the ECU sends a ground signal to the diff coil. At this point the ECU will not denergize the diff coil until the AWD switch is turned off. The hot side of the diff coil is powered straight from the fuse block when the key is in the 'on" position. After the coil is energized the lockup of the diff is a mechanical operation. There are numerous threads about how the Hillard diff works so I'm not going to go into the mechanics again. Read: Front Diff/AWD

Adding a AWD "override" switch ONLY bypasses the ECUs RPM safety limit. It does NOT control how the diff locks up. The diff will still lock and unlock based on differential wheel speed from front to rear. These "override" switches are about as useless as tits on a boar hog and try to justify the cost with false claims. Again, diff lockup is a mechanical action.

Your rear end "kicking out" is because of engine braking.
The way I understand it is when the switch is flipped to 4x4 its not engaging into 4x4. It waits until it a condition exist where the rear wheels are moving faster than the fronts. Is this wrong?

These harness while I agree are 100% overpriced for what they are replace all of the wiring between the diff and the switch and also have leads for power and ground effectively cutting the ECU completely out of the show. The dash will never show 4x4 engaged as it doesn't know. Therefore it cannot control any function related to the diff at any point.

Please for all of our educational purposes explain how if I have the concept of how it operates correct that it is worthless.
 

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I think you misunderstand how the Polaris AWD system works. When you place the AWD switch in the 'on" position it sends a ground signal to the ECU. If the RPMs are below 3200 the ECU sends a ground signal to the diff coil. At this point the ECU will not denergize the diff coil until the AWD switch is turned off. The hot side of the diff coil is powered straight from the fuse block when the key is in the 'on" position. After the coil is energized the lockup of the diff is a mechanical operation. There are numerous threads about how the Hillard diff works so I'm not going to go into the mechanics again. Read: Front Diff/AWD

Adding a AWD "override" switch ONLY bypasses the ECUs RPM safety limit. It does NOT control how the diff locks up. The diff will still lock and unlock based on differential wheel speed from front to rear. These "override" switches are about as useless as tits on a boar hog and try to justify the cost with false claims. Again, diff lockup is a mechanical action.

Your rear end "kicking out" is because of engine braking.
No matter how u explain it, the stock set up sucks!! Now when I put it in 4x4 IT IS LOCKED IN and stays locked locked in. And the rear end sliding out was not because of engine breaking, it was because the 4 wheel drive (front diff) did not stay engauged, now I can desensd the same exact hills and my ass end does not try to pass me buy because the front diff is actually locked in and the front and rear tires are working in sync holding the machine back, not just the rear....

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Now when I put it in 4x4 IT IS LOCKED IN and stays locked locked in.
Sorry but no it is not, you need to understand how it works.

And the rear end sliding out was not because of engine breaking,
Yes it is.


Not trying to give you a hard time but you do not understand how it works. I suggest you do some research, read the link I posted it will tell you how it works.
 

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The way I understand it is when the switch is flipped to 4x4 its not engaging into 4x4. It waits until it a condition exist where the rear wheels are moving faster than the fronts. Is this wrong?

These harness while I agree are 100% overpriced for what they are replace all of the wiring between the diff and the switch and also have leads for power and ground effectively cutting the ECU completely out of the show. The dash will never show 4x4 engaged as it doesn't know. Therefore it cannot control any function related to the diff at any point.

Please for all of our educational purposes explain how if I have the concept of how it operates correct that it is worthless.

"All models of Polaris AWD system work the EXACT same way. The design is based on the Hilliard differential. The front driveshaft, ring gear, and pinion gear spin 100% of the time whether in AWD or not. The AWD switch is wired to the ECU. When the ECU sees a contact closure from the switch and the rpms are below 3200 it sends a ground signal to the differential, the 12v+ is always hot at the differential. When the AWD is engaged an electromagnet pulls the armature plate away from the plate retainer. This allows rollers in the sprague to engage. The spragaue and rollers are sandwiched in between the ring gear and the output hubs. When the ring gear spins faster the sprague / hub assembly the rollers lock into slots into the ring gear creating the front drive.

The two hubs inside the Sprague control differential lock. Each hub has a set of rollers that controls lockup. However, they lockup at the same time creating a true "locked" differential, meaning both front pull 100% of the time. However, upon hard tire impact on one side, that hub will "ratchet" and momentarily unlock. This creates a loud "pop" from the differential and it's designed to save the differential. All be it sometimes it can break the sprague.

So just because you flip the AWD switch "on" does not mean it's in AWD mode. It's not in AWD mode until the ring gear speed exceeds the hub speed. It works the same way for forward or reverse. "


So the ECU ONLY controls when the AWD is allowed to work entially, below 3200rpms...that's it. The rest of the time the lockup is a mechanical action...see above.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
"All models of Polaris AWD system work the EXACT same way. The design is based on the Hilliard differential. The front driveshaft, ring gear, and pinion gear spin 100% of the time whether in AWD or not. The AWD switch is wired to the ECU. When the ECU sees a contact closure from the switch and the rpms are below 3200 it sends a ground signal to the differential, the 12v+ is always hot at the differential. When the AWD is engaged an electromagnet pulls the armature plate away from the plate retainer. This allows rollers in the sprague to engage. The spragaue and rollers are sandwiched in between the ring gear and the output hubs. When the ring gear spins faster the sprague / hub assembly the rollers lock into slots into the ring gear creating the front drive.

The two hubs inside the Sprague control differential lock. Each hub has a set of rollers that controls lockup. However, they lockup at the same time creating a true "locked" differential, meaning both front pull 100% of the time. However, upon hard tire impact on one side, that hub will "ratchet" and momentarily unlock. This creates a loud "pop" from the differential and it's designed to save the differential. All be it sometimes it can break the sprague.

So just because you flip the AWD switch "on" does not mean it's in AWD mode. It's not in AWD mode until the ring gear speed exceeds the hub speed. It works the same way for forward or reverse. "


So the ECU ONLY controls when the AWD is allowed to work entially, below 3200rpms...that's it. The rest of the time the lockup is a mechanical action...see above.
Ok, I think I understand now. The switch is only controlling "if" the diff can go into 4x4. The action of it engaging is a mechanical action and cannot be controlled by any electrical input.

Once the switch is flipped and the 4x4 is engaged below the rpm threshold. Is there any condition that will cause it to disengage besides turning the switch off?
 

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"All models of Polaris AWD system work the EXACT same way. The design is based on the Hilliard differential. The front driveshaft, ring gear, and pinion gear spin 100% of the time whether in AWD or not. The AWD switch is wired to the ECU. When the ECU sees a contact closure from the switch and the rpms are below 3200 it sends a ground signal to the differential, the 12v+ is always hot at the differential. When the AWD is engaged an electromagnet pulls the armature plate away from the plate retainer. This allows rollers in the sprague to engage. The spragaue and rollers are sandwiched in between the ring gear and the output hubs. When the ring gear spins faster the sprague / hub assembly the rollers lock into slots into the ring gear creating the front drive.

The two hubs inside the Sprague control differential lock. Each hub has a set of rollers that controls lockup. However, they lockup at the same time creating a true "locked" differential, meaning both front pull 100% of the time. However, upon hard tire impact on one side, that hub will "ratchet" and momentarily unlock. This creates a loud "pop" from the differential and it's designed to save the differential. All be it sometimes it can break the sprague.

So just because you flip the AWD switch "on" does not mean it's in AWD mode. It's not in AWD mode until the ring gear speed exceeds the hub speed. It works the same way for forward or reverse. "


So the ECU ONLY controls when the AWD is allowed to work entially, below 3200rpms...that's it. The rest of the time the lockup is a mechanical action...see above.
Ok!!
I am not going to argue with you, and I did do my research, and the stock set up sucks.
So lets go about this 2 different ways, The RZR is just like my Fathers 2000 Grand Cherokee wich is full time 4 wheel drive which also sucks I might add, there is a viscosity clutch inside of the Transfer Case that also senses when the rear tires slip it engages the the front driveline and locks it into 4x4, well by the time the viscosity clutch senses the rear tires are slipping, I am already halfway slide ways in the corner I just turned in the snow, and then BAM!! The front driveline engages and throws the Jeep even worse out of control than it was before. When I put my junk in 4x4, I WANT 4x4, not when then RZR or Jeep decides it wants 4x4.
I have been turning wrenches on anything from a weed eater to a 4 axle rotater tow truck and anything in between for over 36 years now, so this not my first rodeo.
And my second point, if the RZR 4x4 is so damn good? why are they after marker company's out there making after marker parts to make it function properly like it should??
OBVIOUSLY we will just agree to disagree on this one, you have what you say is superior on paper and what is written up on it, were I have what I believe is a better set up by the seat of my pants and what actually works out in the rear world, not just what is just typed on a piece of paper

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Discussion Starter #16
Ok!!
I am not going to argue with you, and I did do my research, and the stock set up sucks.
So lets go about this 2 different ways, The RZR is just like my Fathers 2000 Grand Cherokee wich is full time 4 wheel drive which also sucks I might add, there is a viscosity clutch inside of the Transfer Case that also senses when the rear tires slip it engages the the front driveline and locks it into 4x4, well by the time the viscosity clutch senses the rear tires are slipping, I am already halfway slide ways in the corner I just turned in the snow, and then BAM!! The front driveline engages and throws the Jeep even worse out of control than it was before. When I put my junk in 4x4, I WANT 4x4, not when then RZR or Jeep decides it wants 4x4.
I have been turning wrenches on anything from a weed eater to a 4 axle rotater tow truck and anything in between for over 36 years now, so this not my first rodeo.
And my second point, if the RZR 4x4 is so damn good? why are they after marker company's out there making after marker parts to make it function properly like it should??
OBVIOUSLY we will just agree to disagree on this one, you have what you say is superior on paper and what is written up on it, were I have what I believe is a better set up by the seat of my pants and what actually works out in the rear world, not just what is just typed on a piece of paper

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I have also read alot of personal accounts of this harness setup having some legitimate seat of the pants results over the stock setup.

I believe they are true. I have also found other documentation online that supports how he is saying the front diff works. If this is the case the only way this switch setup can work is if there is something else the rzr is doing that is turning off the 4x4 even though the switch is on.

Its "possible" you both are right but I just don't know what all the rzr is doing and when it does it.

The way the diff works.... the only thing an electrical connection of any type can do is to allow the possibility to go into 4x4. After that a mechanical process not related to anything electric has to occur before 4x4 is engaged.
 

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OBVIOUSLY we will just agree to disagree on this one, you have what you say is superior on paper and what is written up on it, were I have what I believe is a better set up by the seat of my pants and what actually works out in the rear world, not just what is just typed on a piece of paper
You can disagree all you want but you are still wrong. What I'm telling you is not opinion but just the facts on how it works....end of story.
 

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Made my own shurlok for 2015 xp1k.....5-pin switch 4x4, taillight power harness adapter, no cutting stock wires. Works every time and all the time switch is on with no decision making from ecu. I turn switch on at low rpm or at idle.
 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
No, it works EXACTLY as I described. This is not debatable or opinion, just facts of how it works.
Are you absolutely positive that the ecu does not play with the ground signal during operation?

I'm not arguing with you, im just trying to learn.

What are you're thoughts as to why so many people feel such a change when with the way you describe its operation they shouldn't?


Is this fake news?

 
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