[diver]

Welding upside down sucks. period. That looks plenty good to me.
Funny story...I was, at the very best, a B grade welder. A few years back it started slipping.
Practiced, I knew it wasnt the machine. I have a Lincoln 230 Power MIG. Not the gas, not the regulators.
Then one day my son came by, and laid down a perfect bead on a repair project I had. Then he went to his truck came back and handed me a bag from the welding store in town. A cheater lens that slips into the helmet. "Dad, I think you...aaahh...I think you are getting old. Try this."
Grumble grumble. OK.
Shazam. It wasn't none of that other stuff. I just can't see anymore LOL.

My problem also. My grandson tried my helmet and was shocked at how big everything looked lol


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[RZR_Joe]

Rut-Roh what's going on here?

Double shear tie-rod in making and A-arm modifications. In case anyone was wondering, these @SATV LT Arms are 1.25" & .125 wall 4130 Chromoly. Pure beef!

 

[RZRCrawlin]

How is the hydraulic steer working?


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[RZR_Joe]

How is the hydraulic steer working?


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Absolutely awesome!

 

[RZR_Joe]

Quick update:
I did not get as much done as I wanted to this weekend but that's always the way it goes. I did make some progress:

Made new tie-rods, double shear otter mounts, relocated the inner a-arm crossbar. Got everything mocked up and tac welded in place. I need to practice on my TIG skills this week and final weld them.



I was going to use 1.25" 7075 Hex bar stock for the tie-rods but decided to go with 1.25" 4130 0.95" and use tube ends. Increased the outer heim joint from 5/8" to 3/4" to accommodate a 5/8" bolt. Outer heims are FK JMXL12T and the inner tie-rodd are SATV 4130 M14. Cross bar is 1.25" .125 wall 4130.

Tie-rds:
You can see how much beefer of a setup. Old tie-rods are 1" 6061 sold stock with 5/8" heim with 1/2" 4130 posts.

Tube ends:
Outters are QA1 3/4" LH and I had to make the inners. Being metric no one makes a M14 1.5 tube adapter.

Inner tie-rods:

SATV on the right and Moog EV415 on the left. The SATV is substantially larger as you can see. The Moog neck down to .415" at the ball where the SATV keeps the .625" dia all the way to the ball. The SATV is 4130 vs regular steel in the Moog. The SATV is also rebuildable / adjustable just like their 4130 HD ball joints. The reason I bring this up is some aftermarket companies include the EV415 as part of their tie-rods. If your machines uses the stock or the EV415 iners then the SATV 4130 is a great upgrade. The 17+ XPT (S) model a M16 1.5 x M14 1.5 inner. The 16 XPT & all 1Ks (I believe, verify 1k info before odering) use a M14 1.5 x 14.5 (Moog EV423). SATV makes these in both sizes. The SATV retails for $79.95 and the Moog or equivalent is around $19. I have beat the crap out of these SATV units all season and they show no signs of wear. Hats off to @SATV for a great product!

Here you can see there is a retaining ring around the outside. Remove the ring, loosen the set screws, and you can turn the inner section to adjust them. Sorry not taking it apart just to take a picture but you get it.

Double shear mount added to the portal bracket. Personallly I think they should come this way

The inner cross bar was hitting the hydraulic ram all full lock just slightly. Relocated it further down for clearance.

Time to take it all apart and final weld everything. Still contemplating whether or not to box in the a-arms. TBC.....

 

[RZR_Joe]

Slow progress but progress.... Welded up the double shear brackets and tie-rods. The tie-rods while beastly just did not fit with the look. I had some 1.25" 7075 Hex stock so I decided to make a new set. They turned out great and match the radius rods, definitely fit the looks of the machine better. I'll use the 4130s as spares. Machining them was fun

So what do you do when you need to drill a hole perfectly centered in hex stock and it's too long for the lathe...improvise and build a rig 🤣

 

[INFRNL]

With all the work you are doing.... seems like you should have fabricated your own arms 😉

It appears that you might already have the tools to do everything you are after.

Great work on your project BTW 👍🏽

 

[RZR_Joe]

With all the work you are doing.... seems like you should have fabricated your own arms 😉

It appears that you might already have the tools to do everything you are after.

Great work on your project BTW 👍🏽

Thanks!
Just relocating a support tube two inches outward on the arms for clearance for the hydraulic ram. I have all the tools but no sense in reinventing the wheel.

 

[RZR_Joe]

Some days you're the windshield and some days you're the bug.....right now I'm the bug. So I F### up and broke a gear on the lathe (don't ask). Ordered new gears overnight air, UPS loses the package. Ok I'll run some practice TIG welds. Cool, think I'm good to go and weld up the arms, nope!!! Out of argon and all the gas suppliers are closed until Monday.

 

[FBT]

I have learned over the year to recognize "bug" days when they are almost over and my behind has been completely kicked and I've broken everything I touch.
I wish I could recognize them about halfway in maybe, so I could say "hey, this is a bug day, I need to calmly put the tools down, shut off the compressor and welding machines, etc, turn off the lights in the shop and walk in the house, fix something cold to drink and sit down in my chair.
And touch nothing more critical than the ice dispenser on the Fridge and the remote for the TV...for the rest of the day.
I just can't seem to get there from here.

Some days you're the windshield and some days you're the bug.....right now I'm the bug. So I F### up and broke a gear on the lathe (don't ask). Ordered new gears overnight air, UPS loses the package. Ok I'll run some practice TIG welds. Cool, think I'm good to go and weld up the arms, nope!!! Out of argon and all the gas suppliers are closed until Monday.
[/QUOTE

 

[RZR_Joe]

Exactly what I did, turned on the TV in man's world and chillin with a coke 😆

 

[SNWMBL]

I have two rules I stick to when working on the RZR or fabricating something.

1. If things start going south then walk away and do something else for the day
2. No math after midnight

 

[INFRNL]

Hey Joe,
I finally went back and just finished rereading this entire thread.
Once again, killer work. I did not originally realize what you have put into this project. I just saw bits and pieces. Definitely a ton of blood, sweat and tears in this 👍🏽👊🏽

Few questions, comments, thoughts.
I have been spending more time here lately researching and coming up with silly thoughts of upgrades to do to my xp4 1000... That may or may not ever happen.

But anyway...
I noticed the SATV long travel kit states max 33" tires because they don't push things forward as they do on the standard kit.

I'm guessing you can clear larger tires because of the portals.

With the mods you are doing to your arms, seems like HCR might have been a better route for you. Although you have the capability to make the necessary improvements.

This doesn't apply to you since you have portals but why does SATV not offer high clearance on the long travel kits. Seems odd to me as long travel would be more prone to actually needing high clearance.

I'm surprised you didn't do the beffier tie rods from the get go. Also, surprised you didn't go with 3/4" rod ends... maybe theres not enough material for that, idk.

From our short exchange of thoughts yesterday, I'd be curious if you would notice any differences from removing your rear spacers.

Walker links, now that you have the halo and you don't see any benefit of continuing to use the walker links with that system... I wonder if the walker links could still be a benefit in some instances. We know you will use the Halo to disconnect for rock crawling but there could be some other areas that you might keep the sway bar engaged but could still benefit from the walker links.

I don't have any experience with the walker links... just some random thoughts. If you liked the walker links in the past, i feel they could still be beneficial. Maybe try them on your next ride to see what you think.

I'm sure I had more thoughts and what not in my head but we'll leave it at that for now.

I'd like to pick your brain on some things I'm considering at some point.

Keep up the great work👍🏽

 

[RZR_Joe]

I noticed the SATV long travel kit states max 33" tires because they don't push things forward as they do on the standard kit.

Not sure why they list 33s because you can run a 33" tire on a XPT with stock suspension. The 16/17 XPT & 17 XPT4 were geared low enough to run 33s without a reduction and I did from day one when it was new.

With the mods you are doing to your arms, seems like HCR might have been a better route for you. Although you have the capability to make the necessary improvements.

The SATV arms are 4130 are plenty strong and I've never damaged. The more I've looked and studied there is no real benefit strength wise to plating them. I just figured since I needed to move a cross brace it would be a good time since they will need to be re-powder coated anyway. While HCR is nice and makes quality stuff the price is crazy. I have been more than pleased with SATV and their support, they are top notch folks!

I'm surprised you didn't do the beffier tie rods from the get go. Also, surprised you didn't go with 3/4" rod ends... maybe theres not enough material for that, idk.

Wasn't necessary with a stock steering rack. The rack would break long before a 5/8' FK heim. When I went to hydraulic steering it was time to upgrade to 3/4" heims and double shear knuckles. The hydraulic ram doesn't care, it will move the rig sideways if you're against a rock and turn the wheel.

From our short exchange of thoughts yesterday, I'd be curious if you would notice any differences from removing your rear spacers.

Not for what I do, I prefer the width and see removing them more of a negative.

I don't have any experience with the walker links... just some random thoughts. If you liked the walker links in the past, i feel they could still be beneficial. Maybe try them on your next ride to see what you think.

I don't see a benefit to using them on the current setup. I want max articulation 95% of the time. Between the LT and width it's more stable than when it was at 72" with front/rear sway bars and WE links. I only lock the sway bar in on the road and extreme off camber situations. They would allow more body roll when I don't want any with the sway bar locked.

I'd like to pick your brain on some things I'm considering at some point.

Don't pick to much at my age I need all I have 🤣 Ask and I'll do my best to help.




So UPS finally showed up with my lathe gears so I'm back in business...time to make some coffee and get back to work

.

 

[INFRNL]

Glad UPS showed up🥳

Thanks for your reply.

I'm more like you in first hand trial and error... also like opinions of others that have had actual experience with different things.

When I get closer, I'll send you a message....

Now get back to work 😜

 

[White Lightning 19]

The only good thing that comes from a bad day like that is it makes you appreciate the good days more. 🤣

 

[INFRNL]

Unless you're a grumpy old man...then nothing helps.

Hopefully we see some updates tomorrow😁

 

[RZR_Joe]

Been slow with the Xmas Holiday but small update:

After finishing the double shear tie-rod mounts on the portal bracket I started cleaning up all the hardware. I noticed the threads were slightly marred and scuff marks in the center of the ball joint pinch bolts. Hmmmmm... Somrthing is moving that should not. Took a ball joint and slide it into the pinch block and slide a bolt in to lock it in place. With the bolt in place but not tightened I was able to slide the ball joint in/out about a ~1/2" and this is slop than I'd like. I had new portal brackets on the shelf so I tried it with a new bracket and the in/out play is only ~1/4". So the brackets are worn some, interesting as I always check everything over that there was ZERO movement in the ball joints. I use a paint pen on the bolts so I know they had not loosened and I use ARP bolts torqued to 70ft/lbs so I know the bolts did not stretch.

This was after a complete season of riding but more wear than I expected so I started looking for the source of the wear. Studying the pinch I noticed an odd wear pattern on the outside flange where the bolt/nut rest. There is a small rib (I assume from the forging process) that was never machined flat. You can see where the bolt head was only touching the pinch block in two small spots (same on both side). This is a problem! This will not provide a sufficient surface for the correct clamping force needed to keep the ball joint from moving. It will also skew the torque settings. How I did not catch this when I originally installed them I have no idea

So next the fix:
I tossed the old bracket to the spare parts pile and started with new brackets. I machined a flat surface on both side of each pinch block. This should have been done from the manufacturer @SuperATV I think I'll have a talk to them about it. One final machine process would not add that much cost to the product but it would improve it 100%.

I forgot to take a picture until after I painted them.

Here are two pictures comparing two brackets, one machined and one the way it came. You can see thow the bolt head does not sit flush.

From the factory:

New bracket with the pinch bolt machined flat and the bolt head sits flush.

If you have portals I would suggest fixing this issue. If you don't have access to a mill you can do it with a grinder or a file.

I have seen a few lower pinch blocks broken off. This is a out of thousands but still a few broke. The top pinch block is welded to the backing plate and upper lip proving good support. The bottom pinch block is just welded to the backing plate with no support. This relies on good penetration during welding to keep it secure and this has been the source of teh few failures I've seen. I inspected both new brackets and the welds look good but I wanted more support. I made a couple of support pieces from .250" bar stock and welded them to each side of an old bracket. I wasn't real happy with the look, just not a "clean" look to it. After contemplating for a few I came up with the idea of welding them from the back side of the mounting plate. I drilled two .500" holes through the back plate and penetrate the pinch block ~.250". Then proceeded to weld the holes up and you's never know it was done and adds considerable strength. I would like to see SATV made the bracket with slots behind the pinch blocks and weld them from both sides. Another idea I'll suggest to them.

Couple shots of the double shear tie-rods setup made from .250" flat stock. That's a 3/4" FK heim with a 5/8" bolt to go along with the hydraulic ram 😀
Yes I know the wrinkle paint I used does not quite match. I'll have them powder coated later 😝

I'll make a seperate new thread about the brackets as I think this is something everyone should do that is running portals and large tires.

Ok time for a and then back to work.....

 

[INFRNL]

Nice update.

Does the pinch block pinch enough to properly pinch the ball joints?
It doesn’t seem like there is enough pinch but it might just be me

 

[RZR_Joe]

Nice update.

Does the pinch block pinch enough to properly pinch the ball joints?
It doesn’t seem like there is enough pinch but it might just be me

The ball joints are tight when they slide in, only need a few thousands to lock them in place.