Polaris RZR Forum - RZR Forums.net banner

Locking four wheel drive?

51K views 59 replies 18 participants last post by  UTVReport 
#1 ·
Is there anyway to get the four wheel drive to lock in and stay in when the switch is turned on?
My machine seems to run in two wheel drive while the switch is in 4 wheel drive until it senses rear wheel slip and then engages the front wheels. This makes for a very unpredictable machine. :sad:
While riding on slick icy roads the rear wheels start to spin before the front end engages and sends the rear off to one side or another before the front end engages. I hate this! :rm_thumbdown:
I would really like it to stay locked in until I put it back into 2 wheel drive. Is this possible?
Also is there anyway to get it to switch to 4 wheel no matter what speed your riding? All my other machines stay locked in and I can change to four wheel at any speed I want and with a little bit of understanding that you can't be spinning the rear wheels and then engage the 4 wheel drive no damage will be done to any components. Other than how the four wheel drive works I totally love this machine!
 
#2 ·
Thats the way the front diff is designed. There are a few write ups on here that explain the operation of the diff if you search, but its not possible to do what you want.

As for engaging on the fly, I'm not sure how you can bypass it. Its based on engine RPM. It is mildly annoying to me but I suppose it may have saved me a couple axles or a diff so I just deal with it.
 
#3 ·
many of us hate the AWD and are dissapointed in not being able to override it because it is not electric. and nobody makes an aftermarket replacement front diff that gives you real 4wd. select the awd at a low rpm if you think you may need it, and when the rear slips at any speed the front will engage unless broken, if sombody would make a 50" with real 4wd i will trade, but for now i like the rzr for the fun factor, and knowing its AWD limits will help keep you out of trouble.
 
#4 ·
After doing some reading in other posts it sounds to me like the speedo-tach regulate when the awd is engaged.
Is there no way to bypass it so you could engage at any speed and have it locked when you flip the awd switch? I can't believe no one has figured it out yet!
Cmon let's hear from the ones that have tried! Gotta be a way!
 
#9 ·
After doing some reading in other posts it sounds to me like the speedo-tach regulate when the awd is engaged.
Is there no way to bypass it so you could engage at any speed and have it locked when you flip the awd switch? I can't believe no one has figured it out yet!
Cmon let's hear from the ones that have tried! Gotta be a way!
Yes, you could wire-up a toggle-switch that would supply 12 volts to the front differential all the time, thus keeping the lock-up fully engaged, continuously. Of course, you'd probably end-up damaging the differential's internal components, but you didn't say anything about that........LOL.

Cheers
 
#5 ·
Know this about "On Demand Four Wheel Drive": Polaris feels as though this is the way to go, and it's hard to argue their logic, after many years of 4WD experience. For discussion purposes, lets refer to this system as 4WD. You can DISENGAGE the 4WD at any time, up hill, down hill, total stop, reverse, 5 mph, or 55 mph. No Problems. Rear Wheels spinnning or not.
BUT, you can only ENGAGE the 4WD switch when the rear wheels have full traction. If you engage while the rear wheels are spinning, you WILL cause major internal damage to the "Front Demand Drive" (or the front diff, as everyone calls it) A lot of guys think they want a 1968 Chevy truck stlye set up, wherein you can go full 4WD and keep it engaged. The problem that occurs with running in this mode, is you will achieve a situation called "dirveline windup".
What happens, is this. An invisible force builds up within all of the rotating parts. Torque, torsion, potential energy, call it what you will. If the front axle is fully engaged at all times, and you are climbing a steep hill, all 4 wheels pulling hard, but they all have sufficient traction to dig in, but not spin, a whole bunch of torque gets "stored" in the tubular parts. Axles, front driveshaft, etc. Now, what happens when you get to the top of the hill is you can step on the brakes, but the machine wants to keep going all on it's own.
Now you have to back up 10-15 feet to allow that stored energy to release itself, or ride around with a steering wheel that feels like you are in a 1948 Mack truck.
It's really hard to explain, but it is a very realistic situation that we are not capable of dealing with if we don't know what to expect, or have never been through it before.
I saw a demonstration 40 years ago. Big 350 Chevy truck pulled to the top of a long hill in 4WD. Never spun a tire. Driver stays in the truck, puts it in neutral, truck wants to keep going! Four guys slid jacks under four corners of the chassis, and jacked the truck up all at the same time. When the tires cleared the ground, the tires started spinning on their own, at a scarry speed. That was because the front and rear driveshafts were wound up like rubber bands, and the energy has to be released somewhere, somehow.
Our small machines simply can't handle that type of abuse, so Polaris went with a Hilliard system which pretty much eliminates the possibility of this situation ocuuring.
Like it or not, I doubt Polaris will ever change from this system for a variety of reasons. You will just have to alter your driving skills.
 
#7 ·
The AWD system works very well but with the front being fully locked when engaged, its harder on axles and the diff components.

If you watch a Honda ATV in mud, you'll notice that when one of the front tires gets in a bind, it will stop spinning, but the other front tire will spin. On the Polaris, both front tires will spin. It really helps having all tires pulling when going through mud (or rock crawling) but unfortunately if you gain a lot of traction suddenly when spinning, chances of breaking are greater.

I would rather have something like the Yamaha or Arctic Cat setup, where you have 4x4 open front diff with an electronic locker but Rhinos have no balls and I will never own an Arctic Cat.
 
#8 ·
Just be glad you don't have the crappy Can Am system. They are always discussing ways to put the Polaris system in their rigs. While having full control of the front diff would be great. It does amazingly well for a awd system. Go down to Moab and ride with the other brands. You will quickly realize the Polaris system is not so bad after all. While every vehicle has room for improvement is is flat out amazing what these can do stock. In my 50 inch rzr it was way squirly on ice. I put a plus 5 kit on it and a tiny bit of toe in and it ran straight and true even on the ice. I am not sure what the major change was but i did nothting to the diff. It may have more to do with wheel base and width ratio I don't know.

I now mostly ride a long XP4. It is as stable as can be and has virtually the same front diff design. It is just long and wide. It tracks very well even in slick environments. It is very predictable on a drift wheter in 2wd or Awd. Really the only viable solution to forcing it to lock in instantly and stay locked in is to slightly oversize the front tires and it will think the rear is always spinning. I recommend playing with the toe in and toe out settings before doing anything drastic like that.
The other problem is engine braking. Everytime you let off the gas on the ice you are virtually locking up only the rear tires. It took me a while to figure this out. Steady throttle is your friend.
 
#10 ·
Running on ice, no matter what type or brand of machine you have, is always a tricky thing. Go ride with the competition for 3-4 days, in all types of terrain and you will see that Polaris has it hands down against the others. As far as breaking things, well, I think the vast majority of that falls on the owner and his/her driving habits. Just my .02
 
#11 ·
Even with voltage to the front diff all the time it will not stay fully engaged all the time. It already has voltage as long as the awd symbol is on your speedo. The situation is the front diff physically locks when it has voltage and the rear slips about 1/10 to 1/8 of a turn. It would require new internals in the diff to create any other scenario. The only difference you would have from running a switch directly vs the one in the dash is it would allow you to engage the awd when over 3,000 rpms. Which I wouldn't recomend doing anyway.
 
#16 ·
In theory its a great design and when its working properly it an awesome system but from what I have read and seen on my 2013 is that its so unpredictable when its going to engage. I only have a few hundred miles on mine and you never know when its going to engage! One time it engaged almost instantly the next time I'm stuck in deep snow because it didnt engage until almost already stuck.
Riding town icy road and give it too much throttle and the rear end starts going sideways then it kicks in. This is my first sxs and maybe its just to different than the wheelers I have owned. I love the xp but just not sure about the front end yet.
 
#17 ·
Something is definitely wrong with your front diff. Start by changing the fluids and make sure to use the right diff fluid the manual calls out. This is critical. Maybe the dealear mucked something up on setup. If it is turning even 1/4 turn before engaging something is wrong.
In sand, snow, or on ice it should basically be engaged all the time.
The two I have seen act like yours in the past both had the wrong fluid or water in the front diff fluid.
 
#21 ·
Does it come with fluid in it from the factory or does the dealer need to fill it?
I will check it out and change fluid. Like I said, when it engages right away its great but mine is so inconsistent on the engagement.
I'm not trying to be a smart arse and some seem to be getting pretty defensive about my statements but I have never owned a rzr before and only know that I don't care for the way my front end works. If its not working properly thats probably why I don't like it and wished I could keep it locked in.
Thank you for the info! I sure didn't mean to pour salt in an obvious sore spot with some. :)
 
#18 ·
I would have to agree that you might have a problem with yours.We do lots of rock crawling and sometimes I dont use 4wd until I am in a bad spot,that said when I flip the switch to 4wd it is locked instantly and stays that way until I put it back in 2wd.Unless something has changed in 2013 that I am not aware of.Hope this helps.
 
#22 ·
I assume the factory puts the fluid in. I cannot confirm. However I have seen two new ones that had some other fluid that the viscosity was too thick and they did not work properly. They did the same thing you are describing. We changed the fluids and they worked flawlessly afterword. It should always engage right away. If your rear tire turns more than 1/4 turn and the fronts aren't turning it has a problem. Change the fluid. It takes 10 minutes. If that doesn't work take it to the dealer and tell them you want them to fix it under warranty. If the wiring is good and it is getting voltage to the diff they will probably just give you a new diff.
 
#23 ·
All is good. This is a big learning curve for the new owners. Sounds like there are a few with problems out there. Yes, positively change the "Front Demand Fluid" p/n 2876251. One Qt will change it at least 2 times. The oil that comes out should be a golden yellow color. If it is milky or dark, you are on to something.
Then, (t least in '09) you can go into diagnostic mode, and toggle through to check the voltage to the front drive. That should get you somewhere.
 
#29 ·
Love your satire. For those who don't understand.

satire |ˈsaˌtīr|
noun
the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues.
 
#34 ·
Exactly...and when it blows...it's a LOUD bang. The Detroit Locker is NOTORIOUS for this "release". You can literally be thrown into another lane when it goes.

This is why ARB became so popular....fully locking, but only when you need it.
 
#31 ·
I'm not saying that a locking front diff would not be hard on parts. I am saying that driveline windup can not cause the vehicle move on its own and you would not have to back up 10-15 feet to get rid of it. Drivelines or any other part of your drivetrain cannot twist like a rubber band and make the tires spin out of control if you were to jack the vehicle up. That is bullshit. Haha I guess I should have just kept my damn mouth shut it always gets me I trouble.
 
#32 ·
For beginners, the front diff is a faster/higher ratio then the rear on full size 4X4 to make the front wheels do there share of pulling. On a hard surface the lock up develops very, very quick, just a matter of a few feet. You just do not have any experience with full time 4WD on full size rigs. Have had a 4WD Jeep for 40 plus years. Cannot begin to count the times I have had to back up to relieve the strain to get the transfer case to shift back into 2 wd. What is stated is accurate. Just because you have no experience does not mean it is not true.
 
#37 ·
No it's not the first time I've said that to myself lol. I have read that article before today and I just read it again. I agree driveline windup can be bad and it is real. I guess I should have specified when I said you were full of shit. The story about the old Chevy I dont believe.
 
#41 ·
No problem here. A little argument here and there can bring out some very useful information every now and then! :)
I talked with my dealer today about the front end and the first thing he said was to drain the oil and put in new oil just as you suggested. :)
I told him I would do it so he gave me a jug of oil. I'll let you know if it solved the problem. I probably won't get at it for a couple of days.
 
#44 ·
Thanks RZR man. Boy do those numbers ring bells. The 3.7 had a front that was 3.8 plus on the pickups I remember. The 3.8 was always so interesting to see in the parts books. Such a strange ratio that it stuck in memory for 40 plus years.
 
#50 ·
It all has to do with power vs milage and work the vehicle is expected to do. 3.07 is high for milage. 3.54 is middle for more power to wheels for acceleration or light duty 3/4 ton or HD 1//2 ton. 4.54 is the HD 3/4 or 1 ton for hard work, lots of pulling power but very pour milage. From those ratio there are many more as the vehicle gets bigger. Think I have seen a 2.?? something ratio some where for small light cars.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top