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post #1 of 46 Old May 26th, 2019, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Usa All Wheel Drive question

Maybe someone here can shed some light on how this "On Demand All Wheel Drive" system works? I somewhat understand that if a rear wheel starts to slip, the front drive engages. But what I am wondering is, on a very steep decline what does the front diff do? In a normal 4WD vehicle, like a Jeep, if I am in 4 Low, and descending a steep hill, the rear tires can not lockup, unless the front tires also lockup when using the brakes. Where this comes into play with my RZR TRE, is, I was descending a very steep hill using my brakes. Since the rear is light, and most of the weight of the RZR is in the front when descending, the rear tires lock up, which makes the rear want to slide sideways. If the RZR would "lock" in 4WD, the rear would not be able to lock up if the front tires were still turning. So, it seems that when descending a steep hill, the RZR is only in 2 wheel drive, even if the switch is set for AWD. Am i missing something here? Or is this just the nature of the beast?

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post #2 of 46 Old May 27th, 2019, 12:00 AM
...is this real life?
 
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

I'm not sure what the answer to your question is, but I avoid using the brakes on steep downhills. I'll actually off and on lightly use the accelerator while in 4 wheel low in order to keep the engine engaged.... It'll just slowly creep itself down the hill with power to all four wheels. That way you can steer and keep your rig under control without the wheels locking up.

Last edited by Scout734; May 27th, 2019 at 12:17 AM.
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post #3 of 46 Old May 27th, 2019, 04:56 AM
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

You are correct, only 2wd on deceleration, I don't think any RZR have it and I might be wrong there but some rangers have ADC which does exactly this, adds 4wd to deceleration.
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post #4 of 46 Old May 27th, 2019, 07:59 AM Thread Starter
 
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Usa Re: All Wheel Drive question

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You are correct, only 2wd on deceleration, I don't think any RZR have it and I might be wrong there but some rangers have ADC which does exactly this, adds 4wd to deceleration.
Thanks for the answer on this. So, is there any modification that can be made to make the RZR stay locked in 4WD? I was actually trying to do what Scout734 says he does, but mine would go way to fast down this hill without using the brakes. To me, this 2WD down hill, is dangerous.
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post #5 of 46 Old May 27th, 2019, 09:01 AM
...is this real life?
 
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

When I first got my TRE I drove it up and down a short steep practice hill several times. The first time the engine suddenly disengaged and it started free-wheeling down the hill it was surprising and I learned real quick to keep the engine under load. This is one reason why I'm glad I got the TRE... the low gear is much lower and really helps keep it slow on the downhills. Probably I've just not yet gone down anything steep enough where this method won't work, but so far it's walked itself slowly down any hill I've tried this on.

Will installing a Duraclutch increase the "engine braking" and give more control to slowly creep down the steep descents?

Last edited by Scout734; May 27th, 2019 at 10:09 AM.
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post #6 of 46 Old May 27th, 2019, 10:24 AM
 
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post #7 of 46 Old May 27th, 2019, 01:05 PM
 
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

https://www.facebook.com/hdextremeof...type=2&theater


Video Explanation ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

the wheels can outrun the diff but the diff can't outrun the wheels
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post #8 of 46 Old May 28th, 2019, 04:23 AM
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriotrider View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterworks View Post
You are correct, only 2wd on deceleration, I don't think any RZR have it and I might be wrong there but some rangers have ADC which does exactly this, adds 4wd to deceleration.
Thanks for the answer on this. So, is there any modification that can be made to make the RZR stay locked in 4WD? I was actually trying to do what Scout734 says he does, but mine would go way to fast down this hill without using the brakes. To me, this 2WD down hill, is dangerous.
I can't say on adding, that is not really my area of expertise, the from diff gear ratio is different that I recall on the ADC equipped models, so I don't think it can be added.

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post #9 of 46 Old May 28th, 2019, 04:56 AM
 
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

Except the magnet is not pulling the armature away from the carrier or the sprague but creating friction to counteract the spring to rotate and lock in the sprague.

If the magnet pulled the armature away from the carrier and sprague it would be a miracle to get everything to line back up and function.

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post #10 of 46 Old May 28th, 2019, 05:13 AM
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

Two foot descents... drag the brake and apply light throttle to keep the clutches engaged and prevent the rear wheels from locking up, you'll have engine braking all the way down to a crawl this way as well ( even though some would argue there is no "engine braking" in these models without a special helix and primary bearing, the clutches are engaged, and the engine rpm is holding the machine from acceleration, that's engine braking. )

I drive with two feet at slow speeds a lot, both crawling up, to prevent any jerking action in engagement, and descending. Most tunes remove the two foot limits in the ECM as well, which can help in a lot of situations.

There is no reasonable way to keep the front diff engaged, or locked, since that's not how the system was designed to work mechanically. It does not have an electronic locker, or engagement, like some may think, the switch simply tells the ECM to energize a magnet that allows the front diff to engage mechanically when the rear wheels slip.
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Help me get some info in these threads: Tire Height --- Front Diff

Last edited by RWB713; May 28th, 2019 at 05:53 AM.
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post #11 of 46 Old May 28th, 2019, 05:35 AM
 
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

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Originally Posted by Bullitt427 View Post
Except the magnet is not pulling the armature away from the carrier or the sprague but creating friction to counteract the spring to rotate and lock in the sprague.

If the magnet pulled the armature away from the carrier and sprague it would be a miracle to get everything to line back up and function.
Just wording....same same
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post #12 of 46 Old May 28th, 2019, 07:49 AM
 
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

I have been running the Hess 4x4 override kit for about a year now and I really like it
I no longer have to slow down to almost a stop to engage ...and to your point it is supposed to keep the diff locked at all times when in 4x4 so it will not engage / disengage when the ecu tells it to . The ecu thinks the diff is always in 2 wheel drive
I am not an expert but this is what Hess told me and it has worked great for me ...I hated the stock set up
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post #13 of 46 Old May 28th, 2019, 07:58 AM
 
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

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Originally Posted by Max H View Post
I have been running the Hess 4x4 override kit for about a year now and I really like it
I no longer have to slow down to almost a stop to engage ...and to your point it is supposed to keep the diff locked at all times when in 4x4 so it will not engage / disengage when the ecu tells it to . The ecu thinks the diff is always in 2 wheel drive
I am not an expert but this is what Hess told me and it has worked great for me ...I hated the stock set up
It just supplies a separate source 12+ / 12- signal to the diff. Under OEM configuration, the AWD switch simply tells the ECU to engage AWD. The ECU, if below 3.2k rpms, will send a ground signal (12+ is always to the diff via fuse block) to the diff to allow AWD. AWD lockup is a mechanical function of the diff and it will still lock / unlock as required.
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post #14 of 46 Old May 28th, 2019, 08:40 AM
 
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

Quote:
Originally Posted by RZR_Joe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max H View Post
I have been running the Hess 4x4 override kit for about a year now and I really like it
I no longer have to slow down to almost a stop to engage ...and to your point it is supposed to keep the diff locked at all times when in 4x4 so it will not engage / disengage when the ecu tells it to . The ecu thinks the diff is always in 2 wheel drive
I am not an expert but this is what Hess told me and it has worked great for me ...I hated the stock set up
It just supplies a separate source 12+ / 12- signal to the diff. Under OEM configuration, the AWD switch simply tells the ECU to engage AWD. The ECU, if below 3.2k rpms, will send a ground signal (12+ is always to the diff via fuse block) to the diff to allow AWD. AWD lockup is a mechanical function of the diff and it will still lock / unlock as required.
Thanks Joe ...I know you are correct ...but i still dont understand what the Hess switch really does different then the stock set up. I know I can engage 4x4 with out slowing down but does it not keep it in 4x4 all the time ...I ask because the main man at Hess told me it keeps the diff from unlocking when it wants to? So if the rpm's are below 3.2K it will still act as stock?
Here is the quote from the Hess website ....

With the factory configuration, the ECU will engage and disengage the 4x4 automatically. This has been known to cause damage to the differential. This kit helps prevent premature damage to your differential by keeping your 4x4 engaged without interference from ECU.

Joe ...I am sorry but I dont understand your explanation and I would like to know the real story. Can you explain it to me in dummy terms ...Thanks
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post #15 of 46 Old May 28th, 2019, 09:14 AM
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Re: All Wheel Drive question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max H View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RZR_Joe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max H View Post
I have been running the Hess 4x4 override kit for about a year now and I really like it
I no longer have to slow down to almost a stop to engage ...and to your point it is supposed to keep the diff locked at all times when in 4x4 so it will not engage / disengage when the ecu tells it to . The ecu thinks the diff is always in 2 wheel drive
I am not an expert but this is what Hess told me and it has worked great for me ...I hated the stock set up
It just supplies a separate source 12+ / 12- signal to the diff. Under OEM configuration, the AWD switch simply tells the ECU to engage AWD. The ECU, if below 3.2k rpms, will send a ground signal (12+ is always to the diff via fuse block) to the diff to allow AWD. AWD lockup is a mechanical function of the diff and it will still lock / unlock as required.
Thanks Joe ...I know you are correct ...but i still dont understand what the Hess switch really does different then the stock set up. I know I can engage 4x4 with out slowing down but does it not keep it in 4x4 all the time ...I ask because the main man at Hess told me it keeps the diff from unlocking when it wants to? So if the rpm's are below 3.2K it will still act as stock?
Here is the quote from the Hess website ....

With the factory configuration, the ECU will engage and disengage the 4x4 automatically. This has been known to cause damage to the differential. This kit helps prevent premature damage to your differential by keeping your 4x4 engaged without interference from ECU.

Joe ...I am sorry but I dont understand your explanation and I would like to know the real story. Can you explain it to me in dummy terms ...Thanks
Not to butt in to your conversation here, but I think I might be able to help

A note to start, For simplicity, lets take the words "lock" and "unlock" out of the equation, just simply use engage or disengage. If the front wheels are engaged, they are locked, period. There is no differentiation in wheel speed between the left and right front wheels, and when I see/hear "locked" that is what comes to mind, a locking differential, which is a whole different conversation, although there some similarities, lets simplify it for explanation purposes. Engage and Disengage.

Now, The AWD switch, whether OEM or aftermarket, controls whether or not the machine has the capability of engaging the front wheels to drive. If the switch is off, the machine cannot engage the front wheels. If the switch is on, the front wheels now have the capability of engaging to drive, but they are not always driving. The Switch kit you have simply bypasses any OEM safeguards and limits programmed into the ECM as to whether or not the front wheels have the capability to engage. This is the whole electronic aspect of AWD in these machines. No other part of the drive mechanism is electronically controlled. The capability of engagement is electronically controlled. That is all.

Once the front wheels have the electronic capability to drive, they now rely on mechanical mechanism to determine if the are driving, or freewheeling. They are freewheeling until rear wheel speed increase a small % past front wheel speed, once this happens, the front wheels are now mechanically engaged and are driving the machine. When the wheel speed returns to equal, and the drive train slack is released, the front wheels will now disengage, until the rear wheels slip again. Rinse and Repeat until the electronic capability is removed.

The 4x4 over ride kit serves a small purpose, but is a bit gimmicky in it's marketing. You cannot electronically override the mechanical engagement mechanism.
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Help me get some info in these threads: Tire Height --- Front Diff
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