Front Diff/AWD - Polaris RZR Forum - RZR Forums.net
RZR XP 1000 Rock & Trail L.E. Forum Discussions related to the RZR XP 1000 Rock and Trail LE Edition

 28Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
 
vidwiz's Avatar
 
My RZR: 2019 XP1000 Trails and Rocks Edition
Member #16877
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Az
Posts: 187
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View vidwiz's Photo Gallery(0)
Front Diff/AWD

I have my first real ride under my belt and I'm thinking mine has a problem.

TRE is advertised as having:

"Xtreme Performance True On-Demand Close Ratio AWD"

I read somewhere that it actuates the front wheels even faster than the regular differential.

However mine is acting in a manner unexpected.

When I engage it, it sure appears to be fully locked all the time. The steering becomes heavier and requires more effort. And there is additional vibration and noise. The steering wheel is less happy turned and whips straight faster than in 2wd. Interestingly if I shift into reverse, nothing changes in the indicators but it feels as if it is then unlocked. In another thread people talked about driving it in reverse to unlock and I have tried that but to no avail.

So I dont know if this being the so called rock crawling version, if that is the way it is supposed to work? I wouldn't call it on demand tho. What are you all experiencing?
vidwiz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 11:32 AM
 
Ballen210's Avatar
 
Member #266720
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View Ballen210's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

I'm not sure if you are expecting an "auto system" when you describe the "on demand", or what exactly Polaris is trying to imply either.
On mine, when you turn on the 4wd, it is full time, locked-up front diff, no in our out, in forward or reverse. The other models have more of an open style front differential, one wheel peel. The carrier bearing vibration is very noticable while in 4wd.
I have experienced that you almost have to be stopped, or going pretty slow, for the 4wd to engage. When I shut it off while in motion, it takes a little while for it to shut off, you have to be off the power for a bit.
I learned a lot about it with the crazy late snowstorm we had last month.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Ballen210 is offline  
post #3 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
 
vidwiz's Avatar
 
My RZR: 2019 XP1000 Trails and Rocks Edition
Member #16877
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Az
Posts: 187
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View vidwiz's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

Thanks for that. My previous RZR worked differently hence my questions, perhaps mine is operating as intended. Not sure why they call it on demand if it is fulltime? I think it was in the service manual where I saw the system waits for 3100 rpm to switch back and forth.
vidwiz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 11:48 AM
 
Ballen210's Avatar
 
Member #266720
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View Ballen210's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

This is my first RZR so I'm not sure exactly what to expect, no complaints with the 4wd so far.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Last edited by Ballen210; March 21st, 2019 at 12:58 PM. Reason: Typo
Ballen210 is offline  
post #5 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
 
vidwiz's Avatar
 
My RZR: 2019 XP1000 Trails and Rocks Edition
Member #16877
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Az
Posts: 187
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View vidwiz's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

I left 4wd engaged a lot in my 800, really helped stabilize the cornering. Not really an option with this one. The power of the 1000 makes me want it even more, that rear end swings out at the drop of a hat. (But I know some people like that)
vidwiz is offline  
post #6 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 12:10 PM
 
Metki's Avatar
 
Member #164697
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 895
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View Metki's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

The crawler is set up for crawling it’s not setup for high speed cornering no front sway bar either


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net
Metki is offline  
post #7 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 12:37 PM
ShredTheLedge
 
Jamison Raymond's Avatar
 
My RZR: 18’ XP 1000 TRE
Member #223282
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: BeastCoast
Posts: 36
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View Jamison Raymond's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

RPM's have to be below 3500 for 4WD to engage, mine howls like crazy in 4WD, I leave mine in 4WD when on loose stuff.
I have an 800s and a Sportsman so this is a big improvement over those and require a different driving style for sure.
Jamison Raymond is offline  
post #8 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 12:37 PM
Mr. & Mrs. PewPewPew
 
KC Desert's Avatar
 
First Name: Kat & Chris
My RZR: 2019 RZR Turbo 4 Dynamix
Member #79033
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Nevada
Posts: 734
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View KC Desert's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

I have a 2019 Turbo and I feel like when I put it in AWD it stays in AWD even if I am on a flat desert Jeep trail. That not only uses a lot more fuel than necessary but adds wear. I do not know if I should take it in or just figure it out on my own, which is what I usually end up doing with Polaris equipment lately.
KC Desert is offline  
post #9 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 12:50 PM
 
jeepkevin's Avatar
 
First Name: Kevin
My RZR: 13' 570
Member #62493
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Allen, Texas
Posts: 66
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View jeepkevin's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

You can play with tire pressure to help. Either raise front pressure or drop rear pressure to help lessen the front end fighting the rear end. A lot depends on terrain.
vidwiz likes this.

13' 570, SATV 5" long travel, 29" XP1K Tires and Wheels, 3K winch, S flares, Polaris rear cage and spare tire, stereo, and a fancy red shift knob!!

14' XP1K, 3.5k winch, forward arms, roof, windshield, 26% gear reduction, Racelines and 32 Roctanes

2019 TRE, SATV forward arms, 32" Roxxzilla, custom cage, stereo, RZR Works parking brake and shifter spring, WOD rear arm brace
jeepkevin is offline  
post #10 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 01:05 PM
 
Ballen210's Avatar
 
Member #266720
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 13
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View Ballen210's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

Yes, dropping the air will help a lot with the rear slide out. Be careful tho as mentioned before with the lack of front sway bar, it may wanna flop over on you if you get too much traction, lol..
I also learned that the pro armor crawler tires are super stiff when they are new. I dropped the air a few times in the sand and it helped, but the sidewalls still felt they were full of air.
I eventually dropped them to 2psi, and eventually pulled the core out, and drove it around for a while to get the sidewalls to break-in, or soften up. Now when I drop to 5-6psi I can see it in the sidewalls. Of course the suspension will break in as well, after a few hundred miles, and it will feel even more squishy/tipsy.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
vidwiz and Corky Thornburg like this.
Ballen210 is offline  
post #11 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 02:08 PM
 
RZR_Joe's Avatar
 
Member #23438
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,228
Garage
Feedback Score: 6 reviews
View RZR_Joe's Photo Gallery(9)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballen210 View Post
I'm not sure if you are expecting an "auto system" when you describe the "on demand", or what exactly Polaris is trying to imply either.
On mine, when you turn on the 4wd, it is full time, locked-up front diff, no in our out, in forward or reverse. The other models have more of an open style front differential, one wheel peel. The carrier bearing vibration is very noticable while in 4wd.
I have experienced that you almost have to be stopped, or going pretty slow, for the 4wd to engage. When I shut it off while in motion, it takes a little while for it to shut off, you have to be off the power for a bit.
I learned a lot about it with the crazy late snowstorm we had last month.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
Sorry but this is not how the Polaris AWD system works. All models of Polaris AWD system work the EXACT same way. The design is based on the Hilliard differential. The front driveshaft, ring gear, and pinion gear spin 100% of the time whether in AWD or not. The AWD switch is wired to the ECU. When the ECU sees a contact closure from the switch and the rpms are below 3200 it sends a ground signal to the differential, the 12v+ is always hot at the differential. When the AWD is engaged an electromagnet pulls the armature plate away from the plate retainer. This allows rollers in the sprague to engage. The spragaue and rollers are sandwiched in between the ring gear and the output hubs. When the ring gear spins faster the sprague / hub assembly the rollers lock into slots into the ring gear creating the front drive.

The two hubs inside the Sprague control differential lock. Each hub has a set of rollers that controls lockup. However, they lockup at the same time creating a true "locked" differential, meaning both front pull 100% of the time. However, upon hard tire impact on one side, that hub will "ratchet" and momentarily unlock. This creates a loud "pop" from the differential and it's designed to save the differential. All be it sometimes it can break the sprague.

So just because you flip the AWD switch "on" does not mean it's in AWD mode. It's not in AWD mode until the ring gear speed exceeds the hub speed. It works the same way for forward or reverse.
RZR_Joe is offline  
post #12 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 03:35 PM
 
Rockymtn5280's Avatar
 
First Name: Mark
My RZR: 2018 RZR 1000 TRE
Member #223457
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Colorado
Posts: 268
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View Rockymtn5280's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

Great description RZRJoe!

My long time buddy with a 2014 has and still does tell me that the moment you hit the 4WD switch, its in 4WD.

No, its not. You may have to slow down and possibly stop for that front diff to engage.

And, going full bore/WFO up a steep hill with lots of loose rocks, the front might disengage for a moment.

That's why I enjoy my TRE. You don't need to go WFO/full bore up that steep hill covered with loose rocks spraying rocks and sliding like you are on goose shit. Crawl right up the worst hill and let the TRE do what its supposed to do.
Rockymtn5280 is offline  
post #13 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 07:14 PM
 
Metki's Avatar
 
Member #164697
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 895
Garage
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View Metki's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

Quote:
Originally Posted by RZR_Joe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballen210 View Post
I'm not sure if you are expecting an "auto system" when you describe the "on demand", or what exactly Polaris is trying to imply either.

On mine, when you turn on the 4wd, it is full time, locked-up front diff, no in our out, in forward or reverse. The other models have more of an open style front differential, one wheel peel. The carrier bearing vibration is very noticable while in 4wd.

I have experienced that you almost have to be stopped, or going pretty slow, for the 4wd to engage. When I shut it off while in motion, it takes a little while for it to shut off, you have to be off the power for a bit.

I learned a lot about it with the crazy late snowstorm we had last month.



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


Sorry but this is not how the Polaris AWD system works. All models of Polaris AWD system work the EXACT same way. The design is based on the Hilliard differential. The front driveshaft, ring gear, and pinion gear spin 100% of the time whether in AWD or not. The AWD switch is wired to the ECU. When the ECU sees a contact closure from the switch and the rpms are below 3200 it sends a ground signal to the differential, the 12v+ is always hot at the differential. When the AWD is engaged an electromagnet pulls the armature plate away from the plate retainer. This allows rollers in the sprague to engage. The spragaue and rollers are sandwiched in between the ring gear and the output hubs. When the ring gear spins faster the sprague / hub assembly the rollers lock into slots into the ring gear creating the front drive.



The two hubs inside the Sprague control differential lock. Each hub has a set of rollers that controls lockup. However, they lockup at the same time creating a true "locked" differential, meaning both front pull 100% of the time. However, upon hard tire impact on one side, that hub will "ratchet" and momentarily unlock. This creates a loud "pop" from the differential and it's designed to save the differential. All be it sometimes it can break the sprague.



So just because you flip the AWD switch "on" does not mean it's in AWD mode. It's not in AWD mode until the ring gear speed exceeds the hub speed. It works the same way for forward or reverse.


Joe is correct but the TRE has a different gear ratio which makes it engage quicker then the ones without the extreme awd


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net
Ballen210 likes this.
Metki is offline  
post #14 of 31 Old March 21st, 2019, 07:31 PM
 
Hvlrgr's Avatar
 
Member #85491
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 302
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
View Hvlrgr's Photo Gallery(0)
Re: Front Diff/AWD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metki View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RZR_Joe View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballen210 View Post
I'm not sure if you are expecting an "auto system" when you describe the "on demand", or what exactly Polaris is trying to imply either.

On mine, when you turn on the 4wd, it is full time, locked-up front diff, no in our out, in forward or reverse. The other models have more of an open style front differential, one wheel peel. The carrier bearing vibration is very noticable while in 4wd.

I have experienced that you almost have to be stopped, or going pretty slow, for the 4wd to engage. When I shut it off while in motion, it takes a little while for it to shut off, you have to be off the power for a bit.

I learned a lot about it with the crazy late snowstorm we had last month.



Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


Sorry but this is not how the Polaris AWD system works. All models of Polaris AWD system work the EXACT same way. The design is based on the Hilliard differential. The front driveshaft, ring gear, and pinion gear spin 100% of the time whether in AWD or not. The AWD switch is wired to the ECU. When the ECU sees a contact closure from the switch and the rpms are below 3200 it sends a ground signal to the differential, the 12v+ is always hot at the differential. When the AWD is engaged an electromagnet pulls the armature plate away from the plate retainer. This allows rollers in the sprague to engage. The spragaue and rollers are sandwiched in between the ring gear and the output hubs. When the ring gear spins faster the sprague / hub assembly the rollers lock into slots into the ring gear creating the front drive.



The two hubs inside the Sprague control differential lock. Each hub has a set of rollers that controls lockup. However, they lockup at the same time creating a true "locked" differential, meaning both front pull 100% of the time. However, upon hard tire impact on one side, that hub will "ratchet" and momentarily unlock. This creates a loud "pop" from the differential and it's designed to save the differential. All be it sometimes it can break the sprague.



So just because you flip the AWD switch "on" does not mean it's in AWD mode. It's not in AWD mode until the ring gear speed exceeds the hub speed. It works the same way for forward or reverse.


Joe is correct but the TRE has a different gear ratio which makes it engage quicker then the ones without the extreme awd


Sent from my iPhone using RZRForums.net
Would it change the rate of engagement or the rate of transfer to the front wheels? Thinking they might spin closer to same rate as rear when engaged or something ...like some models would rear walk in snow cause even when engaged fronts spinning slower than the back
Hvlrgr is offline  
post #15 of 31 Old March 22nd, 2019, 03:48 AM
 
RZR_Joe's Avatar
 
Member #23438
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 2,228
Garage
Feedback Score: 6 reviews
View RZR_Joe's Photo Gallery(9)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metki View Post
Joe is correct but the TRE has a different gear ratio which makes it engage quicker then the ones without the extreme awd[/url]
Curious to know about the extreme AWD...more info?



The TRE & HL have a slightly lower front diff and rear spool ratio than other models. However, mechanically they are identical and gear ratio has nothing to due with when the front locks into AWD. Lock up is created by the difference in wheel speed between front and rear tires. The rear spool in all models has a slightly higher (~3% if I remember correctly) than the front differential. This overdrive of the rear help the front diff lock up quicker. It might have a slightly higher difference in ratio between front to rear which helps it lock up a tad quicker. It would be nice to get a tooth count of the front ring & pinion.

The term "Extreme AWD" is a Polaris advertising gimmick.
RWB713 likes this.

Last edited by RZR_Joe; March 22nd, 2019 at 03:55 AM.
RZR_Joe is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Polaris RZR Forum - RZR Forums.net forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to tell if a FRONT SPINDLE is bent??? Mikeyboy_esq RZR XP 900 7 July 15th, 2015 09:02 AM
Wa - leavenworth Bigduty350 Northwest U.S. / Canada 10 December 14th, 2014 10:04 AM
Need Technical Front Diff Help ASAP!!! bcorum RZR 800 Specific Discussion 52 November 10th, 2014 08:36 PM
2015 Polaris RZR Models Announced awd4life Polaris RZR News 109 September 21st, 2014 07:37 PM
Gussets galore !! UTV Inc. UTV Inc 23 August 14th, 2013 05:34 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome