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post #31 of 44 Old April 9th, 2015, 08:26 PM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

This has been beat to death!
When the tensioner looses its prime, it collapses until oil pressure builds up.
Not all cars experience the same level of cold start noise, but for those that do, it's nerve racking as hell.
To say there is no issue with the Polaris tensioners that exhibit this....that is just plain silly.
I don't think a philosophical debate on oils and/or additives is required in this thread.
I have successfully installed a manual tensioner in my car and it's been flawless for over 1000 miles.
I've done my homework and to 100% guarantee I won't have a tensioner failure, a mechanical tensioner was the answer.
This problem is not unique to Polaris and doing some homework will tell you that.
Good luck to all of you that have this issue.


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post #32 of 44 Old April 10th, 2015, 05:11 AM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

Just because YOUR Rzr doesn't have the problem doesn't mean it's not a issue. To get on here and call everyone uneducated just makes u look like a a$$ and uneducated. My 2010 Camaro doesn't have the key fob problem that Chevy had but that doesn't mean its not a problem.
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post #33 of 44 Old April 10th, 2015, 05:36 AM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

Quote:
To say there is no issue with the Polaris tensioners that exhibit this....that is just plain silly.
This problem is not unique to Polaris and doing some homework will tell you that.
Good luck to all of you that have this issue
BINGO!! There is a problem with these cars, I own two of them and they both do it.
I am a mechanic, not only am I a mechanic I am a Ford mechanic, which means I work on (or avoid like hell) the SOHC 4.0L V6. This engine was developed on top of an existing pushrod engine. It uses a front and rear timing chains with hydraulic tensioners. It is a great engine! It has the potential to last 300K miles +! Except none of them ever barely make it to 200K because......dun dun da the TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS fail... exploding the nylon guides into the engine, piston slaps into the valves, and totally destroying the vavletrain! Hooray thanks Ford! These suckers were recalled in 1997 to fix, and eventually (by 2004) they had it figured out. Figured out means the engines might make it to 200K with the updated Ford timing chain tensioners and guides. The SOHC 4.0L is a good engine, but if you don't address the timing chain tensioner issue when it first shows its head (around 140-170K miles) then its only a matter of time....tick tick tick tick like a bomb. The old version of the 4.0L, the OHV 4.0L "pushrod" before this engine, well we have one in our fleet with 373K miles, one with 325K miles, and other high miles versions also. A SOHC engine will not go this far without being pulled and having its timing "cassettes" and tensioners replaced. The OHV and SOHC 4.0L have the same bottom end.....

I will be putting upgraded tensioners in our xp1000's
To say "there is no problem" or "the noise is normal"...well sounds just like a compartmentalized sales pitch from the dealer

Last edited by 410Customs; April 10th, 2015 at 05:47 AM.
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post #34 of 44 Old April 16th, 2015, 09:15 PM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

Empire Industries Manually ratcheting style timing chain tensioner .Hexagon shape allows for easy tightening into cylinder Priced right at $169.95
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post #35 of 44 Old June 9th, 2015, 07:30 AM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

We installed a weller racing tensioner on our racecar, all issues were gone, I strongly believe they have the best set up when it comes to how they're built, check them out on their website
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post #36 of 44 Old June 9th, 2015, 08:03 AM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

https://www.wellerracing.com/HD-Auto...00_p_3052.html

Here's the link, we like it because it keeps the stock oiling property's!
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post #37 of 44 Old June 9th, 2015, 06:34 PM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

Quote:
Originally Posted by psheadl View Post
Some rattle and some don't. Anyone tried this on one that has a bad startup rattle? Maybe just needs a prime...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=JVTb06h5JCU

That's a good video explaining what happens when a tensioner looses its prime.


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post #38 of 44 Old June 10th, 2015, 08:08 AM
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

Some of the manual tensioners are having issues. In both cases the chain was kinked.This causes the chain to skip timing and bend valves.

I have 2 friends this has happened to in the last 3 weeks. I am taking my manual tensioner out for now until they figure it out.

The Polaris chains are failing and are on national backorder. Polaris is aware of the situation and once again is doing nothing about it.

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post #39 of 44 Old June 10th, 2015, 09:00 AM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho-RZR View Post
Some of the manual tensioners are having issues. In both cases the chain was kinked.This causes the chain to skip timing and bend valves.

I have 2 friends this has happened to in the last 3 weeks. I am taking my manual tensioner out for now until they figure it out.

The Polaris chains are failing and are on national backorder. Polaris is aware of the situation and once again is doing nothing about it.
Am I missing something here??? How is the tensioner the cause for failure, unless installed incorrectly?

How is the tensioner causing a chain to kink? Please enlighten as to how this wass determined?

You have 2 friends with the exact same problem, happening within 3 weeks of each other....talk about coincidence....does it happen to be the same guy installing these manual tensioners on your friends cars?

Did an interweb search as well, I can find absolutely nothing as it relates to the actual timing chain failing....not sure if the "problem" is as wide spread as you indicate. Maybe your 2 buddies are just lucky enough to be on the tip of the spear......

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post #40 of 44 Old June 10th, 2015, 09:46 AM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

My chain broke because I got the tensioner to tight. The reason I got it to tight was because the threads fit so tight. I couldn't turn it by hand. At this point I had no clue if I was hitting the the the chain or not. I pulled the motor replaced the chain and then went to this new Yamaha style tensioner. To me it's better because it takes the guess work out of it.
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post #41 of 44 Old June 10th, 2015, 10:26 AM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

Quote:
Originally Posted by psheadl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by deblas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idaho-RZR View Post
Some of the manual tensioners are having issues. In both cases the chain was kinked.This causes the chain to skip timing and bend valves.



I have 2 friends this has happened to in the last 3 weeks. I am taking my manual tensioner out for now until they figure it out.



The Polaris chains are failing and are on national backorder. Polaris is aware of the situation and once again is doing nothing about it.


Am I missing something here??? How is the tensioner the cause for failure, unless installed incorrectly?



How is the tensioner causing a chain to kink? Please enlighten as to how this wass determined?



You have 2 friends with the exact same problem, happening within 3 weeks of each other....talk about coincidence....does it happen to be the same guy installing these manual tensioners on your friends cars?



Did an interweb search as well, I can find absolutely nothing as it relates to the actual timing chain failing....not sure if the "problem" is as wide spread as you indicate. Maybe your 2 buddies are just lucky enough to be on the tip of the spear......


I can see if you get the manual tensioner too tight you can stretch or break a chain. Get it too loose and you can jump a tooth or two. Both conditions have bad consequences. Then add time and wear and the manual tensioner needs to be adjusted or again you could jump a tooth or two. Add thermal effects of the difference in thermal expansion rates of aluminum and steel (aluminum is about 2X steel). Set the manual tensioner at ambient temperature and as the engine heats up the chain gets tighter. Haven't done it but I'd consider adjusting the manual tensioner with engine at temperature and running. Use sound as the adjusting factor.



The hydraulic tensioner is a compromise and works off oil pressure. Use the wrong oil viscosity and your tensioner force is different. Use the wrong oil filter without an oil drain back feature and you do dry starts. That means the chain is loose on startup and rattles until you get oil pressure. BTW everything else moving in the engine is dry too. So I'd recommend at least using factory equivalent specified oil and filter. Polaris has done significant engineering and durability testing to find the best combination.



Pick your poison (manual or hydraulic), there is no free lunch.

Well said.


Alex

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post #42 of 44 Old June 10th, 2015, 08:54 PM
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

The chains come out kinked with two different brand tensioners. With the stock tensioner the chain is not kinking. Pretty hard to install wrong. That's the question exactly, how is the tensioner causing the chain to kink? Both guys live in different states. There is no discussion yet on this but it will come to light soon. I'm taking mine out. You leave yours in. You might be missing something.

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post #43 of 44 Old June 24th, 2015, 06:40 PM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

First off I would really reccoment buying a factory service manual.
Next buy the Boondocker tentioner, it's $200,00 but thats a lot cheaper than
bent valves, let alone missing out on a weekend of fun because you jumped your cam chain. It's fully automatic so you dont have to mess with adjusting it. Iv'e been running one since my XP1000 was new with no issues.
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post #44 of 44 Old June 24th, 2015, 06:46 PM
 
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Re: Manual Timing Chain Tensioners (and Prices)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gonedunnin View Post
Can anyone explain the process and precautions for installation if I purchase one of these manual timing tensioners?
Buy a factory service manual then buy a Boondocker tensioner, Problem solved.
The manual will tell you how to install it. Then go out and have fun.
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