15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!! - Polaris RZR Forum - RZR Forums.net
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post #1 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

I have been going back and forth on the 14 vs 15 belt. Through another clutch project I have a contact inside at Polaris, can't tell who or what but the following is 100% accurate information.

I was read right off the spec sheet to me from a internal Polaris document.

The 14 belt and 15 belts are identical except for compound.

The 15 belt is a much harder to stand the heat. That causes several problems though I am recommending people take the new cover for the 14 models but do NOT use the 15 belt. I am also recommending 15 owners to switch back to a 14 belt.

For those of you who buy Gates C12 belts from us, we are now recommending using the same belt from the 14 model.

Why? Too hard, it has to get up to 130degrees before it will grip well, so you can have some intermittent bang off the limiter issues, you can even burn one up if you romp on it too hard before it comes up to temp. It does handle the heat better but with new cover old belt is better.

Lastly it is so hard it will wear the primary clutch away much faster then the 14 belts.

Anyone seen a primary on this forum with a hole worn in it? I have.

So I am stating, do not use a 15 belt on either model but do use the 15 clutch cover and if you are going to buy a gates belt from us it will be the same as 14 belt.

I know different people including myself stated a dimension change but today which is Dec. 3 2014 for anyone reading this a long time from now, I had the specs read to me from inside Polaris so I know it is right.

Again as I say sometime, don't kill the messenger, this is just info!!!

Todd

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post #2 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 09:59 AM
 
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterworks View Post
I have been going back and forth on the 14 vs 15 belt. Through another clutch project I have a contact inside at Polaris, can't tell who or what but the following is 100% accurate information.

I was read right off the spec sheet to me from a internal Polaris document.

The 14 belt and 15 belts are identical except for compound.

The 15 belt is a much harder to stand the heat. That causes several problems though I am recommending people take the new cover for the 14 models but do NOT use the 15 belt. I am also recommending 15 owners to switch back to a 14 belt.

For those of you who buy Gates C12 belts from us, we are now recommending using the same belt from the 14 model.

Why? Too hard, it has to get up to 130degrees before it will grip well, so you can have some intermittent bang off the limiter issues, you can even burn one up if you romp on it too hard before it comes up to temp. It does handle the heat better but with new cover old belt is better.

Lastly it is so hard it will wear the primary clutch away much faster then the 14 belts.

Anyone seen a primary on this forum with a hole worn in it? I have.

So I am stating, do not use a 15 belt on either model but do use the 15 clutch cover and if you are going to buy a gates belt from us it will be the same as 14 belt.

I know different people including myself stated a dimension change but today which is Dec. 3 2014 for anyone reading this a long time from now, I had the specs read to me from inside Polaris so I know it is right.

Again as I say sometime, don't kill the messenger, this is just info!!!

Todd

Todd have you done any measuring on the 2? I have both belts instock and they measure .040 different on thickness. The width measures the same and that is what counts, however I would be concerned about certain clutch set ups hitting the bottom of the secondary clutch and causing problems.
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post #3 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 10:00 AM
 
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

beyond that, yes the compound is different and it is advised against running that belt unless you have the new clutch cover and ducting.
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post #4 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGJIM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterworks View Post
I have been going back and forth on the 14 vs 15 belt. Through another clutch project I have a contact inside at Polaris, can't tell who or what but the following is 100% accurate information.

I was read right off the spec sheet to me from a internal Polaris document.

The 14 belt and 15 belts are identical except for compound.

The 15 belt is a much harder to stand the heat. That causes several problems though I am recommending people take the new cover for the 14 models but do NOT use the 15 belt. I am also recommending 15 owners to switch back to a 14 belt.

For those of you who buy Gates C12 belts from us, we are now recommending using the same belt from the 14 model.

Why? Too hard, it has to get up to 130degrees before it will grip well, so you can have some intermittent bang off the limiter issues, you can even burn one up if you romp on it too hard before it comes up to temp. It does handle the heat better but with new cover old belt is better.

Lastly it is so hard it will wear the primary clutch away much faster then the 14 belts.

Anyone seen a primary on this forum with a hole worn in it? I have.

So I am stating, do not use a 15 belt on either model but do use the 15 clutch cover and if you are going to buy a gates belt from us it will be the same as 14 belt.

I know different people including myself stated a dimension change but today which is Dec. 3 2014 for anyone reading this a long time from now, I had the specs read to me from inside Polaris so I know it is right.

Again as I say sometime, don't kill the messenger, this is just info!!!

Todd

Todd have you done any measuring on the 2? I have both belts instock and they measure .040 different on thickness. The width measures the same and that is what counts, however I would be concerned about certain clutch set ups hitting the bottom of the secondary clutch and causing problems.
There is going to be differences in thickness from one to the next

I am going off inside information off their spec sheet and a engineer inside.

I am just telling what I am doing and why I think so.

Also there is no reason for either belt being .040 close to the inside of the secondary period. The travel of the primary controls how far it goes down in the secondary.

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post #5 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 10:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGJIM View Post
beyond that, yes the compound is different and it is advised against running that belt unless you have the new clutch cover and ducting.
I can't see where that is a of a concern, the belt is not making the heat or lowering the heat so run the new cover regardless of belt.

Todd

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post #6 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 10:19 AM
 
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterworks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGJIM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterworks View Post
I have been going back and forth on the 14 vs 15 belt. Through another clutch project I have a contact inside at Polaris, can't tell who or what but the following is 100% accurate information.

I was read right off the spec sheet to me from a internal Polaris document.

The 14 belt and 15 belts are identical except for compound.

The 15 belt is a much harder to stand the heat. That causes several problems though I am recommending people take the new cover for the 14 models but do NOT use the 15 belt. I am also recommending 15 owners to switch back to a 14 belt.

For those of you who buy Gates C12 belts from us, we are now recommending using the same belt from the 14 model.

Why? Too hard, it has to get up to 130degrees before it will grip well, so you can have some intermittent bang off the limiter issues, you can even burn one up if you romp on it too hard before it comes up to temp. It does handle the heat better but with new cover old belt is better.

Lastly it is so hard it will wear the primary clutch away much faster then the 14 belts.

Anyone seen a primary on this forum with a hole worn in it? I have.

So I am stating, do not use a 15 belt on either model but do use the 15 clutch cover and if you are going to buy a gates belt from us it will be the same as 14 belt.

I know different people including myself stated a dimension change but today which is Dec. 3 2014 for anyone reading this a long time from now, I had the specs read to me from inside Polaris so I know it is right.

Again as I say sometime, don't kill the messenger, this is just info!!!

Todd

Todd have you done any measuring on the 2? I have both belts instock and they measure .040 different on thickness. The width measures the same and that is what counts, however I would be concerned about certain clutch set ups hitting the bottom of the secondary clutch and causing problems.
There is going to be differences in thickness from one to the next

I am going off inside information off their spec sheet and a engineer inside.

I am just telling what I am doing and why I think so.

Also there is no reason for either belt being .040 close to the inside of the secondary period. The travel of the primary controls how far it goes down in the secondary.
I would tend to agree with you on the thickness however I have an entire stack of those belts here and they are all the same .040 thicker. I am assuming the polaris folks are giving you the dimensions that matter. Also your right the primary controls how far it goes down. That's why I mentioned on certain clutch "set ups". I know currently we run the old belt set up and love it, however we have a stack of belts here that I am going to have to use at some point.
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post #7 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 10:21 AM
 
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterworks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGJIM View Post
beyond that, yes the compound is different and it is advised against running that belt unless you have the new clutch cover and ducting.
I can't see where that is a of a concern, the belt is not making the heat or lowering the heat so run the new cover regardless of belt.

Todd
The old belt can be used with the new cover, however polaris advises against running the NEW belt with and OLD cover as the new belt will cause more heat.
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post #8 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGJIM View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterworks View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGGJIM View Post
beyond that, yes the compound is different and it is advised against running that belt unless you have the new clutch cover and ducting.
I can't see where that is a of a concern, the belt is not making the heat or lowering the heat so run the new cover regardless of belt.

Todd
The old belt can be used with the new cover, however polaris advises against running the NEW belt with and OLD cover as the new belt will cause more heat.
Not everyone at Polaris knows what they talking about!!! LOL

New belt does not cause more high.

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post #9 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 10:24 AM
 
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

Todd for the record....I didnt catch the entire thread title of 15 guys using 14 belts.
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post #10 of 36 Old December 3rd, 2014, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

Everything is subject to change but today I am no longer recommending the use of the 15 belt on anything regardless.

My purpose in knowing was sales of the gates belt and the reason that I asked this person and told him so.

But I do NOT do something just for money, until today I did not offer a belt for the 15

Also, Gates will NOT be making a 15 belt. Why? no dimension change only compound and they only have one compound

Todd

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post #11 of 36 Old December 6th, 2014, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

Bump

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post #12 of 36 Old December 8th, 2014, 12:44 PM
 
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

I put the new 2015 clutch cover on my 2014 and in the paper work they stated
NOTE: It is recommended that only the belt #3211180 be used width the High-Flow Clutch Intake System.

Seems odd to me that you are the only one recommending to use a 2014 belt on the 2015.

I have over 500 miles on the new 2015 belt and it looks prefect. Dunes and trails and checking cows in the pasture. They is a difference in the two OEM belts.
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post #13 of 36 Old December 9th, 2014, 10:34 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

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Originally Posted by Bluegoose View Post
I put the new 2015 clutch cover on my 2014 and in the paper work they stated
NOTE: It is recommended that only the belt #3211180 be used width the High-Flow Clutch Intake System.

Seems odd to me that you are the only one recommending to use a 2014 belt on the 2015.

I have over 500 miles on the new 2015 belt and it looks prefect. Dunes and trails and checking cows in the pasture. They is a difference in the two OEM belts.
Go back and read the end of the first post.

"Again as I say sometime, don't kill the messenger, this is just info!!!"

Keep in mind I am risking a bunch by selling people 14 belts to use on a 15 model, if I didn't have good reason and someone on the inside at Polaris giving my info I would not do it.

It is also not about selling belts because I say use a 14 Polaris belt if you want OEM or the Gates from us.


It's just info, you can do it or not.

Todd

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post #14 of 36 Old December 9th, 2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hunterworks View Post
I have been going back and forth on the 14 vs 15 belt. Through another clutch project I have a contact inside at Polaris, can't tell who or what but the following is 100% accurate information.

I was read right off the spec sheet to me from a internal Polaris document.

The 14 belt and 15 belts are identical except for compound.

The 15 belt is a much harder to stand the heat. That causes several problems though I am recommending people take the new cover for the 14 models but do NOT use the 15 belt. I am also recommending 15 owners to switch back to a 14 belt.

For those of you who buy Gates C12 belts from us, we are now recommending using the same belt from the 14 model.

Why? Too hard, it has to get up to 130degrees before it will grip well, so you can have some intermittent bang off the limiter issues, you can even burn one up if you romp on it too hard before it comes up to temp. It does handle the heat better but with new cover old belt is better.

Lastly it is so hard it will wear the primary clutch away much faster then the 14 belts.

Anyone seen a primary on this forum with a hole worn in it? I have.

So I am stating, do not use a 15 belt on either model but do use the 15 clutch cover and if you are going to buy a gates belt from us it will be the same as 14 belt.

I know different people including myself stated a dimension change but today which is Dec. 3 2014 for anyone reading this a long time from now, I had the specs read to me from inside Polaris so I know it is right.

Again as I say sometime, don't kill the messenger, this is just info!!!

Todd
I'll repost this so it is all in one place
Got to talk with the Polaris clutch engineer at Glamis. He said the 2015 clutch housing redesign provides about two times the airflow over the 2014 design. They also revised the belt design (stiffer and harder rubber) to reduce slippage at high speeds. Doing this it increases generated heat at low speeds so running the 2015 belt on a 2014 cover system increases heat at low speeds (where most people run). He said the majority of belt issues are caused by high speed heat generation. The cover design reduces internal volume and increases airflow for cooling and adds an additional cooling duct right over the secondary. They added frog skin inlet covers to reduce airflow restriction. The 2014 covers were too restrictive for the increased air flow. He said it would not be advisable to put a 2015 (P/N 3211180) belt on a 2014 housing design because of the reduced cooling. I would assume it would be ok the go the other way. Also he said that adding a blower would actually restrict the cooling at high speed and cause problems since the blowers don't have enough CFM at high engine RPM. It would be nice to have a curve of engine RPM versus clutch CFM.
Asked about belt break in requirements. He said 10 miles of varying low speed (low gear in the dunes, high gear on hard pack) was adequate. Asked about prep and he said just blow out the dust and remove any rubber stuck to the clutch from the old belt if necessary. Don't need to do any burnishing of the clutch or washing the belt.

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post #15 of 36 Old December 9th, 2014, 10:58 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 15 1000 guys use a 14 belt!!! Read this!!

I would go along with a increasing in heat but not a increase in grip at high speed. A hard belt never grips better. Why do performance tires on Vettes wear so fast? They are soft for gripping.

My contact works there too and they say different things.

I asked this guy about the 1000 stock calibration being off, he agreed but said that is what you get when engineers with a college degree are doing

So maybe that is one the guys you was talking too LOL

Like I said it is just info, I have thought a ton about it and this is what we are doing.

Really splitting hairs anyway

It is not worth arguing over to me.

Todd

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