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post #16 of 27 Old May 20th, 2012, 10:31 PM
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR

Excellent find Cliff !!

Interesting approach - By eliminating the flywheel and adapting from that point and using an alternator driven off the primary - Like mine is now.

They addressed the various torsional stress points - The only point they did not validate is a complete engine dis-assembly after a period of time to examine the main bearings. I feel this is a non-issue though.

The engine is installed 180 degrees -- This places the exhaust rearward. This is one major point I feel Polaris missed the boat on with the XP. What a dream this would be to fab up a Turbo system to !!

I really like the way they addressed the engine reverse rotation issue. This does leed to the engine mounting more to one side though.

What I wouldn't give to be a part of that Team - And address the issue of using the BUSA engine in the XP and convert to CVT.

Excellent exercise -- Good Find .. Thanks !!

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post #17 of 27 Old May 21st, 2012, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR


These guys at SUPER ATV used a Gixxer 1000 cc in the RZR and use the RZR tranny with hi low and reverse and still have the AWD.

That is what I'd like to build. Just would have been nice if they would offer a kit for the conversion.
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post #18 of 27 Old May 21st, 2012, 03:34 PM
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR

I think they never offered a kit because of the problems with the chain drive.
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post #19 of 27 Old May 21st, 2012, 03:40 PM
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR

why cant a large engine from a quad be retrofitted into a rzr? like a 1000cc engine from a 4x4 atv...just pondering ideas
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post #20 of 27 Old May 21st, 2012, 04:38 PM
 
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Usa Re: hayabusa RZR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
Excellent find Cliff !!

Interesting approach - By eliminating the flywheel and adapting from that point and using an alternator driven off the primary - Like mine is now.

They addressed the various torsional stress points - The only point they did not validate is a complete engine dis-assembly after a period of time to examine the main bearings. I feel this is a non-issue though.

The engine is installed 180 degrees -- This places the exhaust rearward. This is one major point I feel Polaris missed the boat on with the XP. What a dream this would be to fab up a Turbo system to !!

I really like the way they addressed the engine reverse rotation issue. This does leed to the engine mounting more to one side though.

What I wouldn't give to be a part of that Team - And address the issue of using the BUSA engine in the XP and convert to CVT.

Excellent exercise -- Good Find .. Thanks !!

A colleague who races motorcycles had a slightly different approach you may also want to consider for his 4 cylinder racing motor.

1. The engine was positioned without the cylinder head for frame mount packaging.

2. The head was reversed as all the bolt holes are symmetrical. So in an UTV application this solved the reverse gear issue.

3. The SAE paper makes it very clear the reduction gear is critical for UTV applications due to the severe reverse load on the crank. This is not the case with a motorcycle where all dynamic loads are known and designed for when the weight of the machine is considered. So, I think they covered the crank bearing load issue with the reduction.

4. The forward facing engine design with a reverse head may open more reduction gear suppliers to you.

I think this is the coolest project. Also, check out this BUSA Site for high end motors. 4 cylinder or V8 RZR?? Made in the USA.

H2 BUSA ENGINE SPECS.
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post #21 of 27 Old May 21st, 2012, 04:46 PM
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR

V8 hayabusa... Sweeeet!

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post #22 of 27 Old May 21st, 2012, 04:54 PM
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Re: hayabusa RZR

Ya those are nice I have heard of them before. If they can do that a CVT on the cranks would be a piece of cake. lol



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post #23 of 27 Old May 21st, 2012, 08:48 PM
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR

Reversing the head on a BUSA is not possible. The twin overhead cams are end driven.

Reversing the head does not make the engine run in reverse rotation.

The only engine I know of that has been adapted to the RzR where the head can be reversed is the Weber 750. The overhead cams are center driven. The cam chain runs between the cylinders. By reversing the head - One then has the intake and exhaust on the oposite side - A very versital design making the engine adaptable for many more applications.

To get an engine to run in reverse rotation - One needs to have reverse rotation cam(s) machined. Depending on the engine - One may also have to use an external crank trigger.

The reason for a gear reduction for the primary is -- A magnesium cast primary is only good for appx. 9500 RPM. Thats the reason the APEX engine has a gear reduction - It's rev limiter is well beyond this limit.

Also part of the HP equasion is -- engine RPM. The higher the RPM -- The higher the HP. The one bad part about the APEX is it doesn't have much torque. Especially down low.

Change to one of Mark's billet clutches - And one can remove the gear reduction - Although there isn't a slug for this conversion.

Now -- I'm just waiting for someone to take a 4 seat XP and slip that V-8 BUSA in the back ......

FUN Times .. ..

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post #24 of 27 Old May 21st, 2012, 09:11 PM
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky View Post
The one bad part about the APEX is it doesn't have much torque. Especially down low.
My goodness Sir...I have to disagree with the statement above. Now, it may be because of the way I have my clutching set up (3500 rpm engagement) but the apex in my xp provides immediate rubber melting power and the tires don't stop throwing dirt, rocks, clay until atleast 70 mph.

For whatever reason, this motor/clutch/gear ratio/tire size seems to mesh.


But Sparky, I have to agree with you, That Busa is calling my name as well! I may need to buy another xp

Bent...
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post #25 of 27 Old May 22nd, 2012, 04:41 AM
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR

Just to clarify, the head reversal addresses the exhaust direction issue not the engine crank rotation. Kawasaki had symmetrical center driven cams that make this process easy, no machining. Not sure of the ZX14 setup. So, a BUSA motor may not be the easiest setup.

The SAE paper has two reasons cited for the intermediate transmission. As the engine is now facing rearward the crank rotation is now opposite so that specific transmission offered has a reverse rotation feature. Reversing the head eliminates the issue of reverse rotation gear set of the transmission.

The second reason they mention the intermediate transmission is to address a potential crank load situation. That solution will provide the necessary reverse load torque reduction. However the paper does not prove that this torque multiplier gearing is necessary? If not, then a direct drive will give max HP RPM and blinding acceleration and very high speed. Check out the BUSA V8 powered car. But will a CVT handle the RPM??

The paper suggests that the motorcycle power plant is preferred as this has EPA compliance.

One item that is not mentioned is the reduction in vibration in a UTV application using twin cylinders vs a smoother inline 4.
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post #26 of 27 Old May 22nd, 2012, 04:21 PM
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR

Ummmm....ya know...the RZR drive train is not meant for that kind of power. I'm afraid that before long one would start having problems.

Experienced the same thing with Harleys, get to 1.5 hp/cu in, then primary drive problems, get that beefed up and its transmission problems, get the Baker trans, solved that, then start tearing rear belts, get the best belts, then start cracking frames...there's a limit to what you can do with something. Spend a bit of time on the Dana.com website. They make the RZR drivetrain other than the Hilliard front diff.

JMHO

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post #27 of 27 Old May 22nd, 2012, 05:13 PM
 
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Re: hayabusa RZR

i would like to see a kit with the 5 spd tranny, chain driven to a rear sprocket with cv's, like the busa rails, or a reverse box. screw the cvt and all wheel drive. not needed with 180-250hp! plus you lose weight and rotating mass. i prefer to drive with a manual anyway, especially in a high performance off road rig. might be alot simpler too?

2016 yamaha yxz
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