Ultimate Front Diff Thread - Polaris RZR Forum - RZR Forums.net
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post #1 of 607 Old February 27th, 2009, 12:56 AM Thread Starter
 
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Ultimate Front Diff Thread

Ok, so after hours of searching only to find others with the same problem and no solutions, I dug deeper into my front diff. I'll post what I've learned. If there is a mistake, please correct me. If there is other info, please add it.

I already blown up the stock plastic cage and replaced it with billet aluminum part. I was still having AWD engage while in 2WD. I completely unplugged the AWD at the front diff. It still locked into AWD. Cluncked REALLY hard too.

I pulled it apart to really understand how it worked. I leared that when the switch is activated and the coil is magnetized, it pulls the armature plate agianst the cover plate causing friction between the armature plate and the cover plate. Because the armature plate "slows" with the friction between the two, the ring gear rotates around the cage and causes the roler bearings to push inward and lock agianst the output hubs. This ultimately turns the front wheels.

Now because I already rebuilt mine with new parts and I was still having problems in the 2WD mode, I tore it all apart again. I found two problems that are cuasing what you may have experienced:

FIRST: the H-springs were damaged and did not push outward on the bearings in the factory cage. This would intermitantly allow the bearings to "fall" inward and the ring gear rotate into the AWD position. Its just plain physics. IT IS NECESSARY TO REPLACE THE H-SPRINGS WHEN REBUILDING.

SECOND: the grove on the inside of the billet cage has a tolerance that is too tight. This is where the h-spring rests. When the bearing is pushed in by the ring gear, it smashes the h-springs into a grove. The aluminum is so tight that the springs cannot retun and push the bearing back out. This allows the bearigs to again "fall" inward, causing the ring gear to rotate and act like its in intermittant AWD.

Tommorrow, I'm contacting the manufacturer of the cage and see what they can do. I'll post details later, but as I feel they can fix this, I won't flame the company...yet.

I'll post picture of the springs jammed into the groove that has been cut for them. Its obvious when compared to the stock cage how tight the billet cage is.

Updated

PHOTO CONTEST - Ugliest plastic cage???

Notice in the 3rd photo of the plastic piece sitting to the billet cage, this is how the spring should look. Its not smashed into the caged (Granted there is nothing left)
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Last edited by cheeeto; February 27th, 2009 at 07:08 PM. Reason: add photos
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post #2 of 607 Old February 27th, 2009, 06:46 AM
 
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeeto View Post
I leared that when the switch is activated and the coil (5) is magnetized, it pulls the armature plate (20) agianst the cover plate (3) causing friction between the armature plate and the cover plate. Because the armature plate "slows" with the friction between the two, the ring gear (22) rotates around the cage (25) and causes the roler bearings (23) to push inward and lock agianst the output hubs (10, 15). This ultimately turns the front wheels.


Pictures will really make this the Ultimate Front Diff Thread.

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Last edited by guy48065; February 27th, 2009 at 06:51 AM.
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post #3 of 607 Old February 27th, 2009, 07:29 AM
 
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

Thanks for the info ... your the "Man"
Ken
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post #4 of 607 Old February 27th, 2009, 09:22 AM
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

Good solid info and awesome with the pic. I put the aluminiunm cage in and reused my H springs. Its been in for a year now and I've used the 4wd alot and have been pretty hard on it. I haven't had any problems. Anybody else had problems with th Al cage?
post #5 of 607 Old February 27th, 2009, 09:34 AM
 
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

I have a couple questions to try to better understand how the Hilliard works.
Is the armature attached to the cage?
Are the grooves inside the housing (ring gear) actually ramps?

If both are "yes" then I think I get it. The armature drags and twists the cage and the rollers are forced by the ramps to cam down into the hubs & grab.

I hope this is right or I'm just muddying the water more...LOL

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post #6 of 607 Old February 27th, 2009, 03:00 PM
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

Heres a little troubleshooting guide I picked up from somewhere online a few years ago. Kind of hard to read, but it is a good guide for troubleshooting front end problems.



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Last edited by Dusty; February 27th, 2009 at 03:05 PM.
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post #7 of 607 Old February 27th, 2009, 05:36 PM
 
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

With the added diagrams this thread is well on it's way to living up to the title keep it coming!
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post #8 of 607 Old February 27th, 2009, 07:13 PM
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

anyone every break the armature plate mine broke 400 miles 2 months old anyone have an after market replacement
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post #9 of 607 Old February 27th, 2009, 07:31 PM
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

That was great guys............. This need to become a sticky
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post #10 of 607 Old February 28th, 2009, 08:13 AM
 
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread - Pics added

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheeeto View Post
PHOTO CONTEST - Ugliest plastic cage???

Notice in the 3rd photo of the plastic piece sitting to the billet cage, this is how the spring should look. Its not smashed into the caged (Granted there is nothing left)



Wow--you almost didn't have a chunk big enough to show us the fit!

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post #11 of 607 Old February 28th, 2009, 02:56 PM
 
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

good write up man!

2008 Polaris RZR - 29.5" Outlaws - SS 312 - SSV Works Overhead System - 2" Lift kit - Polaris Sport Roof - Dynatek CDI- Viper 3500 Winch - Custom Snorkels - HL Lift Springs - RZR S Exhaust - Super ATV Axles
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post #12 of 607 Old March 1st, 2009, 10:20 AM
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

There is A huge market for aftermarket front and rear diffs.There are several problems with both of them.They are not strong enough for the extreme riders.Someone needs to capitalize on it



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post #13 of 607 Old March 6th, 2009, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

Bumping because people are asking question, and looking at teh other treads on this site..
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post #14 of 607 Old March 6th, 2009, 05:22 PM
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrzr View Post
Good solid info and awesome with the pic. I put the aluminiunm cage in and reused my H springs. Its been in for a year now and I've used the 4wd alot and have been pretty hard on it. I haven't had any problems. Anybody else had problems with th Al cage?
I too have the aluminum cage and love it. I ride trails very hard and have had no issuse with it. I don't care what others may say, the plastic Polaris POS is only good for 1 thing and that's the dumpster!
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post #15 of 607 Old March 24th, 2009, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
 
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Re: Ultimate Front Diff Thread

Glad to see that everyone is adding info and feedback.

I have to tell everyone that I am having trouble with Dragon Fire Racing. For three days, they have not returned my calls as they said they would. They've had my cage for a while now and I've not heard anything from them. We'll see if they come through.
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