what octane/run any additives? - Page 17 - Polaris RZR Forum - RZR Forums.net
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View Poll Results: what grade fuel do u run
87 386 38.37%
89 77 7.65%
91 329 32.70%
93 214 21.27%
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post #241 of 244 Old December 22nd, 2015, 07:31 PM
 
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Re: what octane/run any additives?

This thread should be titled, "Octane Fallacies".

I'm old, so I go with known science, experience, common sense and manufacturer's recommendations. Can't do anything about crappy 10% ethanol fuel or the internet.

The RZR: 87, like the book says, with Stabil in the gas jugs when I fill them.

The wife's Volvo turbo: 91, like the book says, and Techron once a year.

The 1998 Rider mower: 87, from the aforementioned jug with Stabil. Runs like a top.

The airplane: 100LL AVGAS, operated lean of peak since 2000. Excellent oil anaylysis with 1300 hrs on the engine. Occasional use of MMO.

Autolite plugs on everything (since 1962), or NGK's if I can't find Autolite's.

Works for me, especially at 5,000' where higher than recommended octane would be a financial and illogical waste.


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post #242 of 244 Old December 22nd, 2015, 07:52 PM
 
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Re: what octane/run any additives?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim597 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruger357 View Post
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Originally Posted by hoser View Post
We never see scientific test results performed by a independent lab not funded or sponsored by any business and the results are verifiable by about anybody willing.



Keep in mind that EVERYTHING you read on products is just a advertisement/claims trying to capture your emotions mostly FEAR they are driven to MAKE PROFITS. Endorsements from anybody other than a scientific test results performed by a independent lab are theories fueled by emotion.



Having CSI'd dozens of internal combustion engines of all kinds I have only found one that had any significant "engine deposits" and it was a carberated engine with a bad carb and the owner never cleaned the air filter it ran 50k miles in a over rich condition.



You do know that higher octane fuels are HARDER to ignite, think of it this way 93 octane is like trying to light diesel fuel with a match where as 87 octane is like trying to light starting fluid . People use starting fluid on engines because many times it will self ignite from the compression and only takes a really weak spark to make it ignite when it ignites its sooner than normal and burns longer creating more heat to support the combustion of the next combustion cycle.



Requiring higher octane than recommended by the mfg to prevent detonation happens when compression is raised or ignition timing is advanced, people advance ignition timing to increase the burn duration, running a higher than required octane than required in a engine reduces power and increases the chances of getting combustion chamber deposits because higher octane is harder to ignite it has less time to burn time and less chances of completely burning during the power stroke this lowers combustion chamber temperatures and usually forces the operator to step on the gas petal harder to make up for the lost power, too low of combustion chamber temperatures promotes top end cylinder wear and during off peak power their are times when the engine is in its over rich condition NOW with the lower temps and shorter burn duration caused by high octane you get your combustion chamber deposits forming.



The closer you can stay to detonation the more power your going to make and the less combustion chamber deposits your going to create, your also going to run hotter because your MAKING MORE POWER.



Please don't be offended not making fun of anybody same as I don't make fun of people who believe in the Easter bunny and Santa clause, my parents (great advertisers) pushed these hard on me too later in life I realized scientific results proved mom and dad lied advertisers today still push the Easter bunny and Santa clause on us FOR PROFIT and it works. I adhered to the tridation of lieing to my kids and grand kids to make them feel like they are special for a few extra hours in life, makes me feel good too. I have no doubt that many people feed their toys a line of shit to feeling good about their toys receiving only what they think is best for them.



Sent by my over clocked computer and worn out keyboard.


Couldn't have said it better my self.. I am a retired engineer and do all my own engine work.. I see first hand what detonation, or high octane resistance does to a motor... I only add the Mystery Oil to my gasoline engines to keep what carbon does form on cylinder heads, piston crowns, and intake valves soft and easily removed by hard acceleration. Farmers have been using it for years in their equipment for upper cylinder lube and it keeps injector nozzles clean and piston bores smooth as glass. In my opinion everything else is snake oil .. My new Razr 1000s recommends 87, and it runs fine on it, however I buy 89 as I store fuel for quite a few months before using it all, and know it deteriorate the octane rating with time...

That's why I use Brisk racing plugs from Europe (not made here) with no actual electrode pole, the burn is thorough and performance is excellent, at $20 for a plug, they better be.
With that said, I have to agree that the performance people see, like me with a set of $40 plugs, really isn't going to be a game changer or noticeable for everyday riders. The way I see it, using premium fuels and premium parts and engineering make for a more consistent clean burning and better running machine. Certainly there are those that use only the cheapest of everything as far as ware items, fluids ect. And it's fine, but there is no harm in using premium supplied parts and accessories. Knock on wood I have not had so much as a "hard start" and my machine is literally cutting edge as far as eking the most out of same displacement as another 900, but much much faster. (Louder too unfortunately until I get the quiet inserts for TBR exhaust)


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I have over 10,000 miles on what ever brand spark plug Polaris installed in my RZR-S at the factory think I should at least remove and inspect the plugs ?
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post #243 of 244 Old December 22nd, 2015, 08:09 PM
 
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Re: what octane/run any additives?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoser View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sim597 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ruger357 View Post



Couldn't have said it better my self.. I am a retired engineer and do all my own engine work.. I see first hand what detonation, or high octane resistance does to a motor... I only add the Mystery Oil to my gasoline engines to keep what carbon does form on cylinder heads, piston crowns, and intake valves soft and easily removed by hard acceleration. Farmers have been using it for years in their equipment for upper cylinder lube and it keeps injector nozzles clean and piston bores smooth as glass. In my opinion everything else is snake oil .. My new Razr 1000s recommends 87, and it runs fine on it, however I buy 89 as I store fuel for quite a few months before using it all, and know it deteriorate the octane rating with time...

That's why I use Brisk racing plugs from Europe (not made here) with no actual electrode pole, the burn is thorough and performance is excellent, at $20 for a plug, they better be.
With that said, I have to agree that the performance people see, like me with a set of $40 plugs, really isn't going to be a game changer or noticeable for everyday riders. The way I see it, using premium fuels and premium parts and engineering make for a more consistent clean burning and better running machine. Certainly there are those that use only the cheapest of everything as far as ware items, fluids ect. And it's fine, but there is no harm in using premium supplied parts and accessories. Knock on wood I have not had so much as a "hard start" and my machine is literally cutting edge as far as eking the most out of same displacement as another 900, but much much faster. (Louder too unfortunately until I get the quiet inserts for TBR exhaust)


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I have over 10,000 miles on what ever brand spark plug Polaris installed in my RZR-S at the factory think I should at least remove and inspect the plugs ?
My guess is that it's an NGK, but yeah, I would. Electronic ignition, fuel injection controlled mixture and unleaded gas has been easy on plugs for a long time, so I'm not surprised. The degradation can be subtle.

I plan to pull my plugs at the breakin service to add a dab of anti-seize for the long run.

Retired Chemtrail Vendor
2016 RZR 900 EPS Trail Camo (see garage)
2002 Grizzly 660 Camo, Bighorn 2's, winch
2006 Kodiak 450 Camo, RZR PXT takeoffs, winch (wife's)
Voiding warranties since 1958

Last edited by Desert900; December 22nd, 2015 at 08:16 PM.
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post #244 of 244 Old October 28th, 2016, 06:52 PM
 
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Re: what octane/run any additives?

I run 91, only because that is the non-ethanol fuel at my gas station.
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