Its a novel ...

Thanks again to Nick and John of UTV Crap ... they really supported me in this install and luckily had several parts that I broke available for me ... just good guys too. Even the guys at XMF who manufacturer this kit answered my questions and supported me so this was exactly what I was looking for after Long Travel Industries screwed me. It was so nice to walk into a big shop that had several cages, wheels, LT kits, seats etc. always in stock, in different colors, etc. and ready to rock for RZRs and Rhinos ... so glad I did not have to order from someone else and go through the whole waiting game again.

I have to admit this kit was not even on my radar screen when I did my initial research ... mainly because it was not a "boxed" kit and they were in state (taxes). I still prefer most the boxed kits for looks but that is about it. No doubt companies like Mafia and Pro Craft have sik kits but as I have stated on other forums I really think most these LT kits are plenty overkill, will perform just about the same, everyone is still trying to tweak them in anyways, and I can find something I dont personally care for on each of them from one perspective or another ... I see no clear winner or real way to rank most of them above most the others. The UTV Crap kit uses heims, monoballs, etc. so no worries here ... nothing stock except nuts, bolts, and other misc. stock stuff the other companies are re-using too. All the components were very "beefy" and the arms are as well ... even beefier than some of the other kits they had on the wall too and more than I was expecting once I got my hands on it. I got the 29th kit they have sold and they already have another 30 in manufacturing which means 60 of them soon ... there will be lots of these kits in use. With their willingness to admit they are still dialing in the shock valving as they know they can get a little more out of them even after all the testing and valving they have already done and offering things like a free re-valve when they are 100% happy as well as 30 day money back guarantee they stand behind this product too. At a price of about $5,175 powder coated it does make them one of the lowest priced and would be a heck of a deal for those in CA or others saving the taxes.

Anyways, here are some tips/experiences of mine on this install that should apply to most LT kit installs in general too:

Have seen several people that have pulled off the front plastics for the install. There is no need to do this. The upper front a-arm bolt will pull out just far enough and you can angle it along with the upper arm to get the arm off of it. Even if you break the bolt and have to replace it as I did and mention below, there is an access panel in the front stock plastics that with some effort you get the long bolt into that upper a-arm tab and the access panel will hide any minor damge done to the plastics in the process of forcing it/threading it through.

Of coarse doing the whole new axle swap to stock CVS is the major PITA in this whole process and a big greasy mess. Did not have any real problems getting the axles out of the diffs but from there it was hell. Extremely messy and I did not have the proper tools/shop so would not do it again without atleast a vice or something ... still not 100% sure what the "trick" is or what tools really makes this easier. Lots of beating on them and hand holding during the process when I really only had rubber mallet, hammer, etc. and no real good work bench or vice for the task. It just sucked gettign the CVs off the axles and the new axle back on them. It also sucked for some reason getting them back into the diffs and had to beat them in here too. When it was all said and done we screwed up 3 of the outer CVs too. This was due to the fact there is a hole drilled for the cotter pin that goes in the end of the axle assemble to hold everything on and the beating compacted the threads to where the large nut would no longer go on. One we chased ok with a file fairly easily, another we chased it somewhat but basically had to really force it on and "chase" it with the nut, and the other was completely jacked up and had to cut the end off past the cotter pin. So, atleast one of my outer CVs needs to be replaced next time I need to do some mainenance. Dont know how good of an idea it is to run one (its a rear) without the cotter pin but there is red locktite and thead past the end of the nut so I think I am good and will just keep a very close eye on it. If nothing else, maybe screw the bolt onto the end over the area where the cotter pin hole is to prevent this problem when doing the beatings.

Dont know how I have not heard more about this with all the LT kits from different manufactures that use axle only replacements instead of a complete axle/CV assembly replacement, but you are very likely going to break the outer stock circlips that hold the outer CV's onto the axle either when removing the CVs from the stock axle or even mor elikely when putting the outer CV's back onto the new axle. It is a small circular wire like looking retaining clip that will drive you crazy. Getting them to fit back onto the new axle after bending them so they come off the old one is a challenge ... they just dont have that great of "memory" and break easy. We broke three of the four. The key is they do have to fit back around the new axle just right and it requires alot of "working them in" while trying not to break them. If you dont get them on right you will break them when putting the CV back on. These can only be obtained from Polaris as many people have searched hi and low at all the hardware stores and even the drivetrain places. Even the new stock replacement ones are tough to work on too to get them to fit right. Luckily for me John had some available. It sucks too because Polaris screwed up ... you can buy the front circlips seperately for like $4 but the rear ones only come as part of the Outer Boot Kit for about $45 each ... so, of coarse I broke two rears and one front ... go figure ... and another $100 out the door. Unfortunetly it is also very hard to even tell if you did break them when putting the CVs back on as there is all that grease and they sit down in a groove on the axle. I really suspect there are lots of people running that dont know they broke the circlips on the LT install.

Th CV boot clamps are not your typical hose clamps. More of a banded type and luckily when getting other broken part replacements from John he pointed this out and hooked us up with the proper boot straps and tool to put them on.

I did end up breaking one of the front upper a-arm bolts on install. This happened as I noticed when I put the new front upper and lower arms in that they were a little smaller than my stock ones and there was a gap between the tabs. Was able to get most of them on ok as the tabs moved in a bit with some force but really there needs to be some washers inserted. In talking with John, they have discovered this is because the crush ring is apparently a little different lengths depending upon which "generation" RZR you have. I did break one upper bolt trying to torque the tabs in but there as just too much extrta crush ring to make it happen ... it snapped ... but, John already had some extra bolts luckily for me to go pick up. Point is, use washers that slip over the crush ring if yours has a gap on the arms but not sure its a standard washer you can find easily. Did not have any issues or gaps on the rear a-arms.

During my research I was thinking a complete tie rod replacement was probably a big plus of the LTI kit but realized when installing this kit with just the tie rod extension like most have, it does make it alot easier to adjust the toe with the extra piece in the middle. It is also nice that the extension on this piece is black ... many other kits have a silver extension which really sticks out like a sore thumb IMHO. Its nice to have a beef'd up one piece tie rod but at the same time it might just then put the force on something else in the steering system breaking it rather than a fairly easy and cheap tie rod or extension replacement.

Installing the monoball into the front lower a-arms seemed impossible. After alot of beating, freezing it, and staring at it finally went and found someone with a press. Even with a 20,000lb press it took a bit of effort to get them in and seated all the way down for the C clips to be put in on top of them.

See part #2 below ... too long of a novel for one post LOL ..

Part #2

The Walker Evans shocks do seem like very beefy ones too. I have seen others with the res'y attached but they seem more like ATV shocks. Didnt ask the details but I think these WER shocks are better than some coming with other kits and geared more towards heavier vehicles (maybe John can clarify this). The fronts have 220lb springs and the backs suprisingly have 400lb. They have done alot of testing and went up to the 400lb as they know most people are adding cages, batteries, stereos, etc. ... other companies are primarily running 350lbs. My cage is probably the heaviest one out there along with Optima and a stereo and rear still felt a bit firm on my first test run but need to give it some time and more testing. Of coarse UTV Crap is completely willing to work with you on whatever spring rates you need and did offer to swap mine if I need a change.

Bleeding the brakes was a bit more of a pain than we expected too. Dont know if my speed bleeder/pump was a POS or what but it also seeemed like the nipples were smaller than ideal and hard to get a good vacuum seal on them for whatever reason (did I just say that). Couple thousand pumps on the brake pedal and my brakes are good now and the bleeder is in the trash can LOL.

I choose not to run the front sway bar even though the kit comes with new hardware to be able to run it. I just left my links to the bar aff but have little doubt I will just cut the bar out later too to save a few ounces.

Am running the Holz upper rear shock mount brace and my JaggedX cage that rolls down to the a-arms provides some additonal support for the rear a-arms. I think it is going to hold up fine as I think I can contain myself and not constantly launch it tens of feet but if not I have been told this frame is easy to fix and gussett up if necessary. This is why I am not so sure some of the kits with all the extra bracing is really necessary but it is good piece of mind if nothing else. Mine is one of the first gen RZRs so will see how she holds up even without some of the reported beefing up of the frame by Polaris on later gen's.

I have the install instruction in PDF format which was much easier to see the pics vs. the print out so let me know if you buy this kit and I will forward you a copy.

Here are some things that would have helped:

- Need to included extra circlips for front and rear
- Need to include plenty of those washers for the front arms incase it is the gen that is a bit longer
- Need the proper CV boot straps/clamps and tool ... they are listed on the parts list but do not actually come with the kit per Nick ... they need to be included as cant re-use stock ones that we could tell.
- No reason to not press the monoball into those lower front a-arms ... would have saved me a couple hours
- Of coarse, the instructions could always be better and each persons opinion will differ but there was several things that were not really mentioned at all. The black and white thumbnail pics are a bit hard to see in general to see without a digital copy but even digital they are b/w ... maybe atleast put the manual on CD with the color pics and also include the printout. Not going to whine much here though as I dont think most of the other kits come with any instructions and these instructions were just enough so we did not have to make to make any phone calls, but did waste some time trying to figure some stuff out on our own that could have easily been instructed.
- I think it would be very beneficial to offer up just doing the axle swap install if people were willing to send you their stock axle assembly. Especially those not local who want your kit. Someone who has done this a couple times can do it easily but a one time/first time deal is no real fun. Or maybe even start up an exchange where you have a couple already done and just exchange for their setup. I know, just another hassle in the process and likely not worth it from a business standpoint but an idea to assist the customer.
- Make sure all the parts are in the kit ... I was missing the shock spacers ... just messin with yeah, wasn't that big of a deal for me to go back and visit you again as I needed other stuff anyways and of coarse you had extras in stock so no bigy.
- Keep some of those extra parts John has at the shop ... just to save me alot of time driving from East LA (Buckeye) to Albuquerque (Gilbert) LOL ... atleast you guys have them somewhere though in town and really appreciate you letting me stop by John.

Here is an idea. I know the above is pain and adds cost, etc. Maybe just sell the kit with optional "I am going to try this myself and break alot of stuff" kit that includes the parts/stuff mentioned again ... its so much anyways I dont see why anyone would want to attempt this install without paying for the above also ... even John who does this alot now has a stock pile of that stuff as its gonna happen.

To be honest and a little embarressed, it took us 30 full hours accross 4 days of install and chasing broken parts to complete the task, plus about $125 for broken parts, and am sure another $150+ for other tools etc. I did not have, and need to go back and do part of the worse part over to replace one to three outer CVs at an unknown cost or might just go with the Gorillas if that is an option. A second install would take us probably 8 hours and no broken parts except the circlips but it was a good learning experience as I am not that mechanically inclined but now know a bit more. This install gave us hell on almost everything we did right down to the zerk grease gun so there was alot of bad luck involved also. Almost all the to be expected headaches were part of the axle swap so a kit with the complete Gorillas would make an LT kit very easy to install and save you alot beating on parts and breaking stuff ... I know CVs are tough but hopefully no damage to them as the beatings on mine were severe. Point is, pay John or whomever is the expert on the kit you are doing unless you want "an experience in more than one way" LOL as it might just cost you the same or more anyways and save you alot of time ... or might lean towards a kit with the Gorillas if vendor is not in your hometown.

Got to do a test run at the river bottom out at 339th and videos are here RZR Crap Long Travel Suspension pictures, photos, and videos, from friends & fun on webshots . You cant really tell but those are some extremely nasty whoops I would seriously think twice about skipping over even on my LTR450 quad and it would have done even better if I had the balls to really just punch it through them. As mention above the rear seemed a little stiff to me but need to give it some time to break in and drink a little more courage drink as I did let off a bit and we all know what happens when you do that. I also started the run in the middle of the whoops so took me a few series to get on top of them. In general thought, it felt just as nimble as ever, no additional bump steer that I could tell, steering did not even seem to be any stiffer with all that width, no bottoming out or rubbing on anything (and I am even running 27in on rear ... can explain my experience on that sand tire setup later), as expected the cabin stays alot cleaner with the wheels out from underneath it a bit, and no weird noises or anything that suggest a problem with all the beatings mine took on install. Again, it was just a first run but could not be happier ... time will tell ... Glamis this weekend for second run.

Anyways, it is always a good feeling when you not only like the product you are running but are very happy with the people that sold it to you, and UTV Crap did that for me. I also like to give constructive critisism back especially to those who I know listen and who are in the business of making this even better ... hopefully I am not coming accross wrong in some of the above in any way ... this is a great kit and could not have gone much smoother with any other vendor either.

Here are some Crap pics ... more and better ones later:



Not related but cool:


















Too many images too ... see part #3 LOL

Part #3

Great looking build and an awesome write up When it's time to install LT on my RZR I will definitely read this again for tips.

__________________
06' LTR 450
Walsh - Fox - FuelATV - DASA - K2 Concepts - Power Commander

**RZR coming soon**

Great writeup Todd.

I agree on the axle/CV swap. PITA for sure.

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www.UTVGuide.net

nice right up. I also have nicks kit. I think it's great. i had no trouble with my cv's but i have done them before.

Wow.. nice write up.. the CV's are for sure a pain.. some come apart great.. some you have to cut, machine, press apart. Our kit comes with 3 extra clips.. and we have about 3000 of them in stock if you ever need just the clip...

G-

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Lone Star Racing

Todd,

Amazing write up for sure!!

Axle setup... I belive John was talking about or may even have some OEM RZR CVs and are going to try an exchange program with them.

It will add probably an addition $400-$500 on the kit, which will be refundable when we get all stock parts back in good working order.

All in all Todd it was great to meet you and help you with any questions I could have answered or at least pointed you in the right direction.

If you need anything else or have any more ??'s or comments please let us ALL know.

__________________

4244 W Dunlap Ave // Phx, AZ 85051
Ph. 623.934.3070 // Fax 623.934.043

Great idea. Most do-it-yourselfers would go for the extra $400.

Make it an option so you don't hit the guy that wants to save the money.

Do you have both front and rear circlips ??? In other words, can people get the rears from you without having to buy the whole Polaris boot kit ???

Your new+8 LT kit looks sweet ... good move to in offering up either just the axle only or the complete Gorilla axle/CVs.

Jon,

Thats what we were thinking...

kit on the wall as it sits.. $5175.00 or $5750 with axles and cvs ready to rock and roll with your stock axles and cvs brought back and we refund the difference. This way anyone can just pop them in and not only save some install time, but hopefully wont have to go through the pain and agony Todd did with the CVs.

Just as we tell most customers.. the hardest part of the install is the axles and CVs.

Am I nuts in running that rear corner I talked about without the cotter pin ??? I think its fine as I have never found one of those axle nuts loose but thought I would ask for piece of mind (or not). Will put a seperate post out to see if anyone wants to get rid of there stock axles for those who replaced with Gorillas.

yes your nuts id want a cotter pin just drill a new hole
and the new rear clips are on order should be here in a week or so..

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www.utvcrap.com 623-934-3070

623.934.3070

www.UTVCRAP.com, Rhino Crap, RZR Crap, RhinoCrap.com & RZRCrap.com are in no way, shape, or form affiliated with the Yamaha Motor Company, Polaris Industries or Kawasaki. We are not a direct Yamaha, Kawasaki, Polaris Dealer or Distributor - We merely sell crap for a Yamaha Rhino, Polaris RZR and Ranger and Kawasaki Teryx.

Wish I could ... threads just barely past the nut and not enough room for new hole ...

Drill a hole through the nut and axle. Having a wheel leave you at the wronge time could be bad. VERY BADDDD!!!