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New CA helmet law and kids in back seat - One solution

17K views 28 replies 18 participants last post by  NIKAL 
#1 · (Edited)
New CA helmet law and kids in back seat - 1 solution to helmets hitting back of seat

With the new CA helmet law taking affect Jan 1, 2013 I figured I throw this out there. I was very concerned, like I think many are, with the potential for neck injuries to kids wearing helmets in tall seats, i.e. the helmet hits the vertical portion of the back of the seat and pushes their head forward. I took some pics of my kids with their helmets on in standard adult seat and even a standard booster seat with built in head rest to show what I was concerned with. See below.

I talked with several booster seat manufactures and Leo and Chris at Twisted Stitch showed the most interest in helping out. The idea was to build a low back booster seat for my 4 year old with the back rest low enough to allow her back to sit flush but allow her helmet to clear. It turned out great and the pics are below. For my 7 year old it was a little trickier, she is too big for a booster but her helmet still hits, so the guys built me a 2" thick back pad that is held in place with loops for the 4 point belts. Again it turned out great. She doesn't feel like she's a "little kid" in a booster but her back is fully supported and her helmet is clear. I'll have to take some better pics tonight to show them sitting in the seats. I put a few below but they are not very clear.

What is everyone else doing to protect there kids?

Also wanted to say a huge thanks to the guys at Twisted Stitch for helping me out with ideas and a great product that didnt cost me an arm and a leg.

Chris
 

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#3 ·
Great idea with working with the seat companies for a solution! Glad to hear Twisted Stitch was willing to work and design something for you. Maybe this will inspire them to make this a more production seat or other options for kids with helmets.


I have yet to post pictures of what I have designed and built. But I have a 3 year old and have run into this very issue. I have a child's PRP seat, but still feel she is not big enough to sit in it and have the seat belts fit here properly. So I felt having her in a car seat was still the best option, as the ergonomics of how she fits in the seat and how the belts fit here is better.

So what I build was a child's car seat mount that attaches to the stock Polaris seat base. Basically I built a car seat adapter to bolt to the stock seat base. The child's car seat I used was the Graco Nautilus car seat. We use this exact model seat in both my wife's car and my truck. We like it as it has an adjustable head rest that wraps around to protect the head from side impact. The bottom of the car seat has an adjustable recline feature also. Once mounted on the stock base and using the factory "LATCH" straps you would use in you passenger car, the car seat is more secure then the stock seats are. Also this whole seat and base system comes out within minutes just as a stock seats would. I have switched from a full adult seat to her seat in 3 minutes.

Now here was the next hurdle. The helmet! Like mentioned above when the kids have their helmets on it pushes their heads forward. So what I did is removed all the foam padding in the back part of the head rest. This allowed her head to sit in a proper vertical position and not be pushed forward. There is still padding on the side wrap around part of the seat so she has not only the helmet for protection, but also the protection of the seat. The head rest seat cover itself is slightly padded so when you look at the seat it looks natural and does give a bit of cushioning.

Also I dont feel a DOT Moto helmet is safe for a small child as they are to heavy and can do more damage to there neck & Spine vs no helmet (BTW this is one issues that was raised and Assemblymen Paul Cook's office admitted was flawed in their bill. They did say whoever takes over fixing this bill would address small, young children in DOT helmets.) So at this point my daughter is using a Bell Skateboard helmet. For one it is light enough it does not strain your neck or spine. It actually fits her better as finding small DOT helmets for young children is very hard. Also this helmet does not push her head forward as much as a DOT moto helmet would.

I'm I taking a chance at a ticket as this kid helmet is not DOT? Yes I guess I am! But I have spoke with the Imperial Valley BLM office explaining the situation, and was told off the record that they know helmets for small or young children are not easy to find, and mandating DOT was probably not the answer. It was of his opinion that if all the riders were wearing helmets, that he would see no reason to stop and cite the driver. The idea is if you are trying to the best of you ability to follow the laws then you should be just fine.
 
#4 ·
Helmets are mandatory here in Oregon for kids.....I just sold my sand car and bought a RZR. I believe the DOT approved helmets are too heavy for a childs neck to support. But - I bought one to try ...and I was right. Watching my grandson try to hold his head up in the car was not enjoyable. I believe it would cause more damage in an accident due to the weight on his neck.

The first image below is what I tried using ....it's a child DOT approved helmet - but way to heavy. I just bought the second helmet - that looks more like a bike helmet ..and it's DOT approved. I haven't tried it in the RZR yet....but feel better about the weight and size. The last time out I had the kids wear their bike helmets in the RZR - and the rangers didn't say anything when they checked me out.
Link to helmet site:
D.O.T. Approved Children's Helmets
 

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#5 ·
Exactly my concern with the DOT helmet. This was what I also told the BLM Ranger. He too agreed and like mentioned he felt that if you were making an attempt to follow the law, but also being safe with your children, then he was fine with the bike helmet. Let us know how the new helmet works and how much it pushes the child''s head forward once against the back part of the seat. Because the helmet weight is one part of the problem, the other is fitment once buckled in the seat
 
#6 ·
Good points guys. My girls are big for their age and we tested out quite a few helmets before buying. We ending up buying the Simpson full face, cant remember the name but it is their lightest helmet. The things hardly way anything and are only slightly heavier than the girls bike helmets. I'll have to check if they are DOT approved. We even bought one for my 7 year old just in case she feels her motorcycle helmet, the one in the pictures, is too heavy for her in the back seat.

Chris


Sent from my iPad
 
#7 ·
My kids all starting riding motorcycles early & were on them without training wheels by 4-5. Those helmets, no matter how "small", we still really heavy on those little bobble headed kids. They looked like that cartoon spaceman, Kazoo (anyone besides me remember Kazoo?).

Mine have been wearing neck braces for years and I think they're one of the top 3 most important bits of gear to wear. You can buy the awesome Leatt braces, but those'll set you back a few hundred each. A great alternative MIGHT be the much more inexpensive firm padded neck braces. They don't cost a lot ($40-$50 or so) and work really well - and since they don't look like traction devices - they wouldn't fight with the little one's helmet being pushed fwd by the back of the seat.

Just a thought.

 
#11 ·
My kids all starting riding motorcycles early & were on them without training wheels by 4-5. Those helmets, no matter how "small", we still really heavy on those little bobble headed kids. They looked like that cartoon spaceman, Kazoo (anyone besides me remember Kazoo?).

Mine have been wearing neck braces for years and I think they're one of the top 3 most important bits of gear to wear. You can buy the awesome Leatt braces, but those'll set you back a few hundred each. A great alternative MIGHT be the much more inexpensive firm padded neck braces. They don't cost a lot ($40-$50 or so) and work really well - and since they don't look like traction devices - they wouldn't fight with the little one's helmet being pushed fwd by the back of the seat.

Just a thought.
I really want a collar like those for my son, any info on the ones you posted?
Thx
 
#10 ·
Unfortunately in this case the government will cause MORE harm than good. You have made an attempt to solve a very real issue that wasn't even considered before the politicians blindly signed off on this BS law. Ordering people to put helmets on their kids that will more than likely do more harm than good because of I'll fitting helments and improper seating and restraints not designed to work together. Unlike adults who most will fit in readily available equipment children's stuff is harder to find and properly fit. I have yet to see a decent helmet that fits a very small child that is light enough to not risk a neck injury. BAD LAW.CLosest thing I have seen to being light enough is a super cheap plastic kids mx helmet which I am sure isn't DOT approved or even of good quality but I would consider safer than the heavy DOT approved models. Helmets are notorious for causing neck injuries. Chances of a child ,properly restrained ,receiving a head injury I would think would be a lot less than a crash that could cause a neck injury. Obviously either could happen but just a fast trip through the whoops could injure a child's neck with a heavy helmet. Glad your trying to protect your kids from the dumbass politicians shortsightedness.
 
#15 ·
X2?!?!?!?!?
 
#17 ·
Simply put above. Helmets are not going to be comfortable for children. They will have sore necks due to helmet weight. Think why we had this law in the first place. Did you know that Atv's and UTV have to wear a helmet by law, but dirt bikes are exempt. You say its the law for them too. Well Sir it is not. Ask the US Forest Service or Law Enforcment official and they will tell you that dirt bikes on forest service roads or trails do not need a helmet by law. Stupid laws are created by stupid people. I found this out the hard way regarding certain CA laws. Yes they do not makes since but its the law.
Again ATV's and UTV require helmets.
Dirt bikes NO helmet requirement by law in CALIF. Read the sections and you will see.
 
#18 ·
Couple more pics of the booster and pad. I didn't run the seat belts through the belt loops for the pics but you get the idea. With the belts through the loops it really holds it in place well and keeps it centered behind my daughters back.









Chris


Sent from my iPad
 
#19 ·
OK what about those little half helmets the Harley guys are often seen wearing? I just looked and some are D.O.T. approved per their ads. Those would surely be light enough? Some are on sale right now at rockymountainatv.com and a few even look kinda cool. hmmmmmm
 
#20 ·
Those half Harley style helmets might be light enough, but try to find one small enough to properly fit a small child? That is one problem and then the other is still the fact that the back of the helmet is still to thick and pushes the child's head forward when trying to sit in the seat.
 
#21 ·
So, if I spend $100k on a really nice sand rail, will this law still reach out and bite me? I can't wait to put Kalifornia in the rear view mirror, which my RZR has because its street licensed in AZ!
 
#23 ·
Nope your fine! Put your kid in a 500 hp buggy with no helmet and strap them in using bungee cords and you are totally legal. Unsafe & stupid, but legal.

Personally I think it is only time before they make a law stating all OHV riders must wear a helmet. Somehow though they will over look motorcycles like they have already. You must wear a helmet on a ATV and soon UTV, but a motorcycle off-road is not required to wear a helmet!
 
#25 · (Edited)
Per the BLM's website;
If you are riding a motorcycle at the ISDRA off road, are you required to wear a helmet?

No, but it is recommended. Helmet use is required on ATVs only. CVC 38505.

BLM Website - Frequently Asked Questions - Laws and Safety

If there is no Vehicle Code (VC) then they cant site you for not wearing a helmet on a off-road motorcycle. Next time in Ocotillo ask a BLM Ranger for the VC for not wearing a helmet on a off-road MC? Currently the only VC's are for ATV's and after Jan1st UTV's. I was shocked when I learned this too. This is one more reason why the UTV law is so flawed.

But what you need to remember is the UTV law was pushed by the manufactures, their own funded organization (ROVHA) and their lobbyist. The MC manufactures are not pushing the helmet law for off-road recreation, and until they do and pay for it, no one is going to write and pass a law. The manufactures are pushing these laws due to liability and past lawsuits. If it was not for that they probably would careless if you had a helmet or not. They are protecting their bottom line, not your safety.
 
#26 ·
Although about 1/2 of Ocotillo Wells is BLM land, the other 1/2 is State. The 1/2 that is BLM is still enforced by the State Park Rangers. I have never seen a BLM ranger there. The BLM may not enforce helmet wearing while riding a motorcycle on their land, but I know the state rangers will enforce it on state land and the BLM land controlled by them. I will have to see if there's a CVC posted on the sign next time I am there. CVC 27803 deals with helmets and motorcycles, but section(d) clearly states while on highways. Now you have me intrigued.
 
#29 ·
I would have to believe all rangers, BLM or Park would have to follow the same laws. The CVC is a California Vehicle Code, not just some Federal Law. BLM follows Federal Law, but also has to follow State laws for which they are in. Park Rangers would do the same, to the best of my knowledge? Like I mentioned the only off-road helmets laws that seem to be in the books are for ATV's and soon UTV's. It make no sense why a off road motorcycle would not have to have some sort of helmet rule, yet I have not found one and the BLM site does not show one exists. They clearly state it is suggested, but not a law to have to wear one.
 
#28 ·
I went through so many freakin' helmet to try fit my 8 yr old daughter. NONE of them where light enough for her neck. She would try them on .... yea, fits great, NO problem UNTIL about 2 hours into the ride... and her neck would get sore and END THE DAY.

Here's what finally solved my problem:

Smith Optics Unisex Child Holt Junior Snow Sports Helmet
Amazon.com: Smith Optics Holt Junior Helmet, Youth, White Floral: Sports & Outdoors

She can ride ALL day with ZERO neck problems. It's NOT DOT approved. So just for giggles, I bought some DOT STICKERS off ebay and stuck them on there. No tickets or problems yet. Your mileage may vary, just what I did.

Brilliant!
 
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