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Engine Oil Options

This is a discussion on Engine Oil Options within the RZR XP 1000 forums, part of the General RZR category; I am on the quest for an oil for my 15’ xp. I have read until my eyes hurt. Polaris states in the owner’s manual ...


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View Poll Results: What Oil are you using?
PS-4 5w-50 27 15.43%
PS-4 Extreme 10w-50 33 18.86%
Amsoil 4 0w-40 5 2.86%
Amsoil sxs 5w-50 26 14.86%
Rotella T6 15w-40 26 14.86%
Joe Gibbs Driven XP7 10w-40 1 0.57%
Joe Gibbs Driven XP9 10w-40 0 0%
Maxima Semi Synthetic 4-Stroke 10w-40 9 5.14%
Maxima SXS 5w-50 9 5.14%
Mobil 15w-50 11 6.29%
Mobil European 0w-40 5 2.86%
Mobil T4 10w-40 6 3.43%
Castrol 5w-50 7 4.00%
Schaffers 5w-50 5 2.86%
Lucas Motorcycle 10W-40 0 0%
Other 8 4.57%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll

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Old January 5th, 2017, 06:07 AM   #1
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Engine Oil Options

I am on the quest for an oil for my 15’ xp. I have read until my eyes hurt. Polaris states in the owner’s manual that if you do use another brand, DO NOT use automotive oil. So we are looking for a motorsports oil. Alba states do not use Polaris, so we are looking for aftermarket. Most say the old PS-4 was 0w-40 but, that was before the SAE was printing on the bottles, and after running Amsoil says it drops from 5w50 to 40. So is the 0w-40 a guess on lab results? None the less, that was before the XP1k’s came out if I’m thinking right? Then you read that some say race oil is just for racing, short long hard runs drain and repeat, they do not have the additives to “work” for months.
Called Alba (to order cam tensioner) and asked about oil weight. He said, “We run maxima oil because it works for is and our driving style and climate. We offer it because its what “we” run.” So I asked about running there SXS 5w-50 and if the SAE was old per some 2012 info on this forum. He said,” We rund the 10w-40 blend because we want some dino oil in there. The detergents help wash dirt out of the crappy Polaris main bearings. We don’t run full synesthetic for that reason. Other makes with better bearings yeah.” So now im more confused because OEM is synthetic and alba said run anything but OEM and that’s why they run blend.
So what’s that leave us with? No automotive/diesel oil, no racing oil, and stick with 5/10w-50.
Polaris, amsoil or blend Maxima.
In a Amsoil “test”, I know wright? They tested the maxima, it was right there the whole time. With Amsoil and Mobil. On one test it was down in the 8th spot IIRC, but other then that top 5. Then on the final report it didn’t even place in the top 16. BMW oil how ever was never mentioned in the test but came in 3rd on the final summary.
Another site has a EOA of ps4 vs amsiol and he “DieselFumes” was leaning towards PS-4. The PS had Zn at 810 vs AMS at 995. BOTH measured at SAE 40!, and the PS-4 had a moly of 8 vs AMS 1. Moly is what trashes wet clutches right? So PS-4 is not motorcycle friendly? Getting deep now.
I have read guys consuming oil running PS-4 but at 13,000 miles. I want 13,000+ miles!
So now I am more lost then when I started. I bout Polaris oil for front and rear diff/trans for now. And a wix filter with both drain backs, ends in 7.

Post:
Oil brand, SAE, filter, EOA if you have em and Miles on sxs!
Also would love to know if the current oil you were running was discontinued, whats #2
Thanks

Last edited by strate6; January 5th, 2017 at 06:21 AM.
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Old January 5th, 2017, 06:32 AM   #2
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Re: Engine Oil Options

Here's my reports

100 miles on Polaris 5-50


200 mikes, and really bad running because of an exhaust cam jumping, on LE 8820 20-50



I own my own tribology consultant firm. So I get weird with oil...

First, ignore Amsoil tests. They are not kosher. They make a good product, but their marketing is misleading sometimes. I'm surprised they haven't been sued.

What Alba said is partly true. Real synthetics do have similar detergent packages in them. They don't usually work as well for a plethora of reasons though. Mostly because the add packs that are carried properly by a PAO base stock are much much more expensive. And, if you don't use them, they are more likely to not go everywhere the oil goes... in laymen terms... also, improperly blended PAOs tend to increase in viscosity when oxidizing, or if super heated varnish badly. A high quality blended PAO won't go way up and sludge. But there is only one synthetic that won't varnish (PAG), and it turns to jelly if mixed with even a drop of anything else. So having a carrier stock of a high quality group 3 is usually the solution so the varnish is carried away to your drain pan.




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Old January 5th, 2017, 07:57 AM   #3
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Re: Engine Oil Options

So what does this all mean? Is there an oil that we should be using in our machines?


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Old January 5th, 2017, 08:04 AM   #4
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Thats the point of this post. To get throught the advertising and apply some facts to the choices. Im hoping on real world results as to what is working. Lab test and milage. Proof ps4 and amsoil is bad or good. And what not.
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Old January 5th, 2017, 08:05 AM   #5
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Re: Engine Oil Options

Quote: Originally Posted by Wheel View Post
So what does this all mean? Is there an oil that we should be using in our machines?


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Honestly, I'm still digging. I don't see why this engine needs a 50 weight in the high end. The load to opposing surfaces velocity is too high. I have diesel drag trucks making 2000 hp and 3000 ftlbs at far Les velocities safely with 5-40 and 15-40. 20-50 is my go to race oil usually. But it's far too cold in the winter for such a high vis. I'm now testing LE 5-40 to trend wear.

But, the lesson from my analyst is fuel dilution. Fuel dilution will ruin any and every oils ability to hold a hydrodynamic film. Do id say my position now, change it more often than you usually would. It's 3 quarts, no need to go far on it. Use any oil of the right viscosity and quality and you will be just fine if you change it every couple of hundred miles. I'd stick with CJ4 oils as they have more zinc. But not all zinc is created equal, so there's that....


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Old January 5th, 2017, 09:18 AM   #6
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Re: Engine Oil Options

Forgive my ignorance. I did notice the fuel dilution in your chart there, and that threw a huge red flag. So we need to change our oil every 300 miles??

Holy cow.
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Old January 5th, 2017, 09:25 AM   #7
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Re: Engine Oil Options

I'd do analysis, and dial it in. My engine might be an anomaly. But I'm going to guess the interval should be half of Polaris spec. And that Polaris oil shit itself more or less, so I'd definitely change it more often with that oil.


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Old January 5th, 2017, 09:29 AM   #8
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Re: Engine Oil Options

Driving style, ambient temps, humidity, so many variables. And the low sump volume makes it more susceptible to degradation.


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Old January 5th, 2017, 09:30 AM   #9
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CJ-4 is diesel oil you saying.
The joe gibbs xp7 is zddp enhanced. So its high zinc. Called drive and he said ZN is around 1300ppm and moly is 40ppm. Normal drain times but keep eye on it. If it looks good its good. He reccomended xp7 over the xp9 for agressive trail riding.

Im going with the sever schedule 50hrs ish No extended changes here. The maxima blend is $31.97 at summit. Thats $27 a change with wix.

Any down side to running a blend?

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Old January 5th, 2017, 09:41 AM   #10
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Re: Engine Oil Options

I've run PS-4 in the 3 RZR's I've owned. I have not gone above a couple thousand miles on any of them, so I don't have high mileage experience, but I haven't had any engine issues. Generally I change my oil with around 500-600 miles which is most of my seasonal mileage. I trust the Polaris oil because they test their engines and vehicles with this oil in them. They build engines on dynos which can put significantly higher loads and abuse an engine more than any of us driving our RZR's on the trails. I have had oil analysis completed and seen significant fuel dilution just as Jimdawg shows in his reports. I agree fuel dilution is going to be the killer of the oil in these units, so changing your oil frequently is probably the best solution. Fuel Dilution will reduce the viscosity, as seen in his oil analysis, so running a high viscosity oil (50 in 5w50) should improve the life of your engine because it will handle more fuel dilution prior to reducing the viscosity to the point additional wear will occur. Maybe it only reduces the viscosity to a 30 wt when starting at 50, but if you started at 30wt it may be reduced to a 10 wt. Polaris likely sees this issue as well, so maybe that is why they use a 50wt. Ultimately they have more testing miles and hours than any of us, so if it works for them it will work for me. Buying Polaris oil and filter 1 - 2 times per year doesn't add up enough to justify potential issues due to buying an oil that may be cheaper or "easier to get" (Amazon carriers Polaris oil, so it's not hard to get).

I also agree with Jimdawg on Amsoil testing. I have read many of their reports, and they are written well and they provide data to support the claims they want to address. I have been an engineer long enough to know there is always more details behind the scene good or bad. I think they make good products, but I believe Amsoil is probably the best oil marketing company in powersports. Look at the number of races/series they sponsor to see how much money they make on the oil they sell.
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Old January 5th, 2017, 09:48 AM   #11
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Re: Engine Oil Options

More disheartening news! Most of my rides are in the 150 mile range. I do a lot of open desert riding on power line roads etc, and can cover a lot of ground in a hurry doing 60mph or more.

Oil change every other ride. Got it. Argh!


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Old January 5th, 2017, 09:56 AM   #12
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Re: Engine Oil Options

Quote: Originally Posted by strate6 View Post
CJ-4 is diesel oil you saying. The joe gibbs xp7 is zddp enhanced. So its high zinc. Im going with sever schedule. No extended changes here. The maxima blend is 31.97 at summit. Thats $27 a change with wix.

Any down side to running a blend?


I'd stay away from racing oils, they do have more anti wear i.e. Zinc, but they do not deal with ingress of particulate well because they aren't designed too. And these engines take in a lot of garbage.
CJ4 is a diesel spec, yes.


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Old January 5th, 2017, 10:05 AM   #13
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Re: Engine Oil Options

Quote: Originally Posted by Smith View Post
I've run PS-4 in the 3 RZR's I've owned. I have not gone above a couple thousand miles on any of them, so I don't have high mileage experience, but I haven't had any engine issues. Generally I change my oil with around 500-600 miles which is most of my seasonal mileage. I trust the Polaris oil because they test their engines and vehicles with this oil in them. They build engines on dynos which can put significantly higher loads and abuse an engine more than any of us driving our RZR's on the trails. I have had oil analysis completed and seen significant fuel dilution just as Jimdawg shows in his reports. I agree fuel dilution is going to be the killer of the oil in these units, so changing your oil frequently is probably the best solution. Fuel Dilution will reduce the viscosity, as seen in his oil analysis, so running a high viscosity oil (50 in 5w50) should improve the life of your engine because it will handle more fuel dilution prior to reducing the viscosity to the point additional wear will occur. Maybe it only reduces the viscosity to a 30 wt when starting at 50, but if you started at 30wt it may be reduced to a 10 wt. Polaris likely sees this issue as well, so maybe that is why they use a 50wt. Ultimately they have more testing miles and hours than any of us, so if it works for them it will work for me. Buying Polaris oil and filter 1 - 2 times per year doesn't add up enough to justify potential issues due to buying an oil that may be cheaper or "easier to get" (Amazon carriers Polaris oil, so it's not hard to get).

I also agree with Jimdawg on Amsoil testing. I have read many of their reports, and they are written well and they provide data to support the claims they want to address. I have been an engineer long enough to know there is always more details behind the scene good or bad. I think they make good products, but I believe Amsoil is probably the best oil marketing company in powersports. Look at the number of races/series they sponsor to see how much money they make on the oil they sell.


I agree with one exception. It is intuitive to make the logical assumption that starting with a higher is will protect the bearings better when diluted. But in reality gasoline might just lower viscosity at 100c, but at 150c and about which is closer to what bearing temps are it destroys the film strength. Diesel fuel doesn't do this quite as bad, but HTHS numbers drop considerably faster with gasoline dilution. So you are correct to a degree, but the VI goes all hairy quick with even 1-2%. Also, the higher viscosity creates fluid friction, and that has its own consequences without the proper loading to justify it.

I think the Polaris oil is just fine though, if changed often enough.

Thanks for the comment FYI.


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Old January 5th, 2017, 10:54 AM   #14
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Re: Engine Oil Options

Amsoil. 🏼
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Old January 5th, 2017, 11:41 AM   #15
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Re: Engine Oil Options

Quote: Originally Posted by Wheel View Post
More disheartening news! Most of my rides are in the 150 mile range. I do a lot of open desert riding on power line roads etc, and can cover a lot of ground in a hurry doing 60mph or more.

Oil change every other ride. Got it. Argh!


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Based on your type of riding you don't need to change oil with the same frequency I do here in MN, because you aren't doing nearly as many cold starts. During start up these engines receive quite a bit of fuel, so part of the reason many people see high fuel dilution is because they start the engine frequently and/or don't run the vehicle long enough at full operating temperature to burn off the fuel that is dumped into the engine at cold start. Since you are running much warmer temperatures than I am in MN. I would also suggest the PS-4 Ext Duty 10w50 rather than the PS-4 5w50 if you are riding the desert. I'm not sure what the differences are, but I know Polaris recommends Ext Duty for the hot climates. This oil should have less Viscosity Modifier, so the oil should break down less due to fuel dilution and provide a better fuel film barrier. I think the oil change recommendation is 1000 or 1500 miles on these engines, and I would think based on your longer rides you could run the Polaris oil comfortably to the recommended change interval. Oil changes aren't very time consuming or expensive for someone that sounds like he is going to rack up the miles. Cheap insurance and gives you a reason to get out in the shop between rides!
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