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Suspension setting for XP 1000

This is a discussion on Suspension setting for XP 1000 within the RZR XP 1000 forums, part of the General RZR category; Quote: Originally Posted by Krunch0 Quote: Originally Posted by marlboroman Quote: Originally Posted by bshay20 Is this with the factory valving or the ones you ...


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  #16  
Old October 14th, 2013, 02:33 PM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by Krunch0 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by marlboroman View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by bshay20 View Post

Is this with the factory valving or the ones you re-valved?
These are with factory valving. I have one machine with the stock valving and one I re-valved. I am currently working with Walker Evans to fine tune the ones I re-valved. We are trying different spring combos and a true dual rate spring set up. So far, there has been no benefit to the true dual rate set up for the rear.

I think that with this setup, the only true advantage that a dual rate setup would have over what we have now is you can set where the transition between the two spring rates take place. The tender spring with the lighter rate takes the small stuff like washboards ect. Then as you move farther into the travel the keeper hits the dual rate stop and the main spring takes over. So the only advantage that I can see is with the dual rate stop you can set where in the travel the transition from tender to main happens.

Now I am not entirely sure that the tender spring that is stock is truly up for the task of being a true dual rate. Most tender springs I have seen are much much longer which gives more travel in the tender before the change over to the main.

marlboroman,

when you went dual rate, did you change your tender spring or did you keep the stock spring and just re-valve?
I tried it both ways. I am now using a true dual rate set up. I have changed out both upper and lower springs with Eibach springs. I Installed cross-over nuts. The top spring is no longer used as a tender spring, it is the primary spring.
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  #17  
Old October 14th, 2013, 03:36 PM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by marlboroman View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Krunch0 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by marlboroman View Post
These are with factory valving. I have one machine with the stock valving and one I re-valved. I am currently working with Walker Evans to fine tune the ones I re-valved. We are trying different spring combos and a true dual rate spring set up. So far, there has been no benefit to the true dual rate set up for the rear.

I think that with this setup, the only true advantage that a dual rate setup would have over what we have now is you can set where the transition between the two spring rates take place. The tender spring with the lighter rate takes the small stuff like washboards ect. Then as you move farther into the travel the keeper hits the dual rate stop and the main spring takes over. So the only advantage that I can see is with the dual rate stop you can set where in the travel the transition from tender to main happens.

Now I am not entirely sure that the tender spring that is stock is truly up for the task of being a true dual rate. Most tender springs I have seen are much much longer which gives more travel in the tender before the change over to the main.

marlboroman,

when you went dual rate, did you change your tender spring or did you keep the stock spring and just re-valve?
I tried it both ways. I am now using a true dual rate set up. I have changed out both upper and lower springs with Eibach springs. I Installed cross-over nuts. The top spring is no longer used as a tender spring, it is the primary spring.

Can you shoot a picture of your setup and what spring rates you are using for main / tender?
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  #18  
Old October 14th, 2013, 04:42 PM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by Krunch0 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by marlboroman View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Krunch0 View Post


I think that with this setup, the only true advantage that a dual rate setup would have over what we have now is you can set where the transition between the two spring rates take place. The tender spring with the lighter rate takes the small stuff like washboards ect. Then as you move farther into the travel the keeper hits the dual rate stop and the main spring takes over. So the only advantage that I can see is with the dual rate stop you can set where in the travel the transition from tender to main happens.

Now I am not entirely sure that the tender spring that is stock is truly up for the task of being a true dual rate. Most tender springs I have seen are much much longer which gives more travel in the tender before the change over to the main.

marlboroman,

when you went dual rate, did you change your tender spring or did you keep the stock spring and just re-valve?
I tried it both ways. I am now using a true dual rate set up. I have changed out both upper and lower springs with Eibach springs. I Installed cross-over nuts. The top spring is no longer used as a tender spring, it is the primary spring.

Can you shoot a picture of your setup and what spring rates you are using for main / tender?
I was asked not to share anything as far as valving and or spring rates yet. As soon as I am finished, I will post pictures, videos and instructions. The setup is like in the XP1K video. Also, I have changed out my rear sway bar and end links. I am keeping one of my XP1000's mostly stock and the other one is my "Test" vehicle. As I get the "OK" from the different people and mfg's I am working with, I will post up everything. This thing is being set up for what I call my "Dune Gymkhana" machine. After the tune is PERFECT for the dunes, I will be removing a lot of weight and adding some forced fed HP as well as safety equipment and adding some strength to the chassis. With what we have planned, it's going to need it! With the BLM being closed, it has moved back the schedule for the filming in the dunes. I will have a huge post with everything as soon as I can spill the beans.
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  #19  
Old October 14th, 2013, 05:05 PM
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  #20  
Old October 23rd, 2013, 06:44 AM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

mine to feels a little stiff from factory but i have never adjusted these when taking your measurement is the tire off the ground or not
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  #21  
Old October 23rd, 2013, 06:51 AM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by justyld View Post
mine to feels a little stiff from factory but i have never adjusted these when taking your measurement is the tire off the ground or not
yes
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  #22  
Old October 23rd, 2013, 10:07 PM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by justyld View Post
mine to feels a little stiff from factory but i have never adjusted these when taking your measurement is the tire off the ground or not
When measuring spring length...the tire is off the ground...the shock fully extended.

Chris
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  #23  
Old October 23rd, 2013, 10:11 PM
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Usa Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by CB-BLR View Post
After going for an afternoon ride in my sons XP 1000...I wanted to start a thread to talk about suspension settings for the XP 1000 using the stock springs.

This should include spring preload both front and rear...with zero preload being determined by raising the vehicles tries off the ground, and loosening the preload adjuster until there is no tension on the springs while just barely touching the top of the spring stack. I will measure and report the stock preload settings at the recommended spring lengths in the owners manual under zero load (tires off the ground)

Vehicle ride height both front and rear.

Clicker settings measured in number of clicks out from fully tightened (in)

When I first checked the clicker settings on my sons XP1, they were all set at 11 clicks out from full firm. After riding with him for awhile...I softened up the rear clickers to 15 clicks out, and felt that the ride was improved. But I also feel that the front springs are too soft and might need to have some more preload cranked into them. Polaris recommends to not exceed the factory preload by more than 25mm (1inch).

Also when I checked the ride height of the rig front and rear...it measured at 13" in the front (measured from where the front of the lower a-arms attach to the frame...and 12.5" in the rear (measured from the most rearward and lowest portion on the frame) Polaris claims a ground clearance of 13.5 inches for this vehicle. I was checking this because it seemed to hit obstacles on the trail that my XP 900 usually doesn't hit. My 900 had 13.5" in the front, and 13" in the rear with the original 26" inch ITP tires. It is now taller than that as I run 27.5" Pitbull Growlers. Something strange here since the 1000 is running on 29" tall tires.

Thoughts and comments?
Your preferred settings?

Thanks in advance,

Chris
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  #24  
Old November 4th, 2013, 12:16 PM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Does taking the rears to a softer setting(pre-load) and thus setting it lower help with cornering? I'm trying to dial this in more to where there is less body roll when hitting a tight corner. I want it to naturally want to break loose and drift the back end around and not tilt majorly and dig in like its doing now. Any suggestions. Currently the shocks are at the stock preload. I tried the compression clickers but that didn't help with the body roll too much.
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  #25  
Old November 4th, 2013, 02:29 PM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

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  #26  
Old November 4th, 2013, 05:22 PM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by dajdog1 View Post
Does taking the rears to a softer setting(pre-load) and thus setting it lower help with cornering? I'm trying to dial this in more to where there is less body roll when hitting a tight corner. I want it to naturally want to break loose and drift the back end around and not tilt majorly and dig in like its doing now. Any suggestions. Currently the shocks are at the stock preload. I tried the compression clickers but that didn't help with the body roll too much.
The stock tires suck for cornering on most things as they are rounded off mushy balloons!

Stiffening up the front end with some added preload helped my sons rig corner better...along with some EFX Motoclaws or Pitbull Growlers. I liked the way the Growlers handled better...but they did not have the ground clearance sonny was looking for.

Chris

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  #27  
Old November 5th, 2013, 01:54 AM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

By increaseing "preload" you are not making it stiffer, all you are doing is raising the ride height. If anything you are making it softer as the shock is in a softer part of its stroke.

What toe are people running and how much does it change with ride height adjustments?
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  #28  
Old November 5th, 2013, 04:46 PM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by O2M View Post
By increaseing "preload" you are not making it stiffer, all you are doing is raising the ride height. If anything you are making it softer as the shock is in a softer part of its stroke.

What toe are people running and how much does it change with ride height adjustments?
My understanding of springs is that they are measured in lbs per inch of compression...so while increasing the preload does not increase the overall rate of the spring...it most certainly does push the spring into a stiffer part of its compression stroke. Example: a 250lb per inch spring takes 250 lbs to compress in the first inch...and 500 lbs in the second inch and so forth. It becomes harder and harder to compress the more you squish it down...hence this same spring is pushing back at 1000 lbs when you have it compressed 4 inches. Putting more preload on the spring does indeed raise the vehicle and therefore put the shock into a more supple portion of its stroke... but at this part of the stroke...the needle has not come into play yet so the shock is speed sensitive and not position sensitive until it is further down in the stroke and the tapered needle comes into play. Typically you want to run less than 25 mm of preload (1 inch)on a spring in order to keep it in the supple part of the spring...hence it is better to have a slightly stiffer spring with less preload than a lighter one with more preload if you want a supple ride with good bottoming resistance. The springs on the front of the XP1 are too soft in my opinion for a balanced ride. You can either add more preload to the front...or take out some preload on the rear in order to get the car to work more correctly...or some combination of both. I added preload to the front of my sons car...and put a spare tire on the back...thus adding weight to the rear...and the ride is significantly better than it was stock.

On a side note...I believe that the springs on the XP1K-4 are the same springs as on the two seater...and the 4 definitely carries more weight on the rear.



Chris
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  #29  
Old November 7th, 2013, 07:56 AM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by Krunch0 View Post
The rear I backed the pre-load off quite a bit. Not sure because i lost my mark, so I used a measuring tape to set them both. Back end is still real stiff and tends to pogo stick. Rebound settings are set the same as the front. I dont want to take out much more pre-load because I dont want to lose ground clearance. I am contemplating making these a true dual rate with the divider stop and different springs. it may help out some. Someone in a thread said you have to disassemble the shock to do that, but looking at it you dont have to. you just have to back the pre-load to release the tension on the spring and take off the lower spring perch. You can then screw on the divider collar and re-spring. If I cant get these WE dialed in, that is worth a shot.
It's a common problem, For 20 grand plus, one would think they could take the time to set up the suspension correctly from the factory. Do you fiddle with the suspension, wheels, tires, brakes, etc on a new $20,000 car or truck? I never have:

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  #30  
Old November 7th, 2013, 10:09 AM
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Re: Suspension setting for XP 1000

Quote: Originally Posted by FlatBlack View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by Krunch0 View Post
The rear I backed the pre-load off quite a bit. Not sure because i lost my mark, so I used a measuring tape to set them both. Back end is still real stiff and tends to pogo stick. Rebound settings are set the same as the front. I dont want to take out much more pre-load because I dont want to lose ground clearance. I am contemplating making these a true dual rate with the divider stop and different springs. it may help out some. Someone in a thread said you have to disassemble the shock to do that, but looking at it you dont have to. you just have to back the pre-load to release the tension on the spring and take off the lower spring perch. You can then screw on the divider collar and re-spring. If I cant get these WE dialed in, that is worth a shot.
It's a common problem, For 20 grand plus, one would think they could take the time to set up the suspension correctly from the factory. Do you fiddle with the suspension, wheels, tires, brakes, etc on a new $20,000 car or truck? I never have:

We found for the dirt the suspension was set almost right on.
The Dunes being much harder,, yeah the sand is harder, so we had to loosen it up.
It's all quite simple and I think I have less than 10 minutes labor adjusting and maybe 20 minutes driving it to get it where we want it.

We have it where the girls click it softer,, the guys in the family click it firmer.

I'd wager the rock crawlers and the mudders are even a different setting.
It's all good and easy.
I'm glad we can change the settings in the first place.
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