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bad news death at dumont last night

This is a discussion on bad news death at dumont last night within the General RZR Discussion forums, part of the General RZR category; Quote: Originally Posted by 450grl There are no signs in the dunes to warn you of any steep drop-offs....the dunes are faaaar too big of ...


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Old January 5th, 2011, 07:46 AM   #46
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

Quote: Originally Posted by 450grl View Post
There are no signs in the dunes to warn you of any steep drop-offs....the dunes are faaaar too big of an area, and they change all the time. It just wouldn't be possible...

The reason they are dangerous is because people go too fast over the crest of a dune without knowing what's on the other side. There are safe ways to dune, where you can traverse the dune, come up to the lip and get a look over it before heading over the other side....or, for people who haven't mastered that skill, just go slow enough at the top of a dune to where you can stop or change directions if you don't like what you see on the other side.

Many (too many) people go to the dunes and don't understand how they lie (the dunes have a rythm...usually the steep sides are on the same side, and the less steep sides are on the opposite side), and just kinda go balls out because they don't really know how to drive in the sand. Traction is very different in sand.....quads/bikes and UTV's all handle very differently in sand than they do on hardpack. These are things that are learned through careful experience......and with good training from people who know the dunes well.

Heading off of a steep side of a dune is usually what hurts/kills people out there.....it doesn't have to be very fast, if you aren't ready for it and you nose your machine straight down to the bottom. Even in soft sand you can break your neck with the force of a fall....or, dropping off of a steep dune, even a smaller one, you can land face first into the bars, or the ground with your machine landing on top of you - it's just bad no matter how you look at it.

That being said....the dunes offer an amazing, unique experience if you respect them, take the proper precautions, and learn how to drive / ride in them. They are probably my favorite place to be.....
Very well said, and 100% correct !
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Old January 5th, 2011, 09:02 AM   #47
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

Vegas Lights, I was there for the weekend also and I thought the same as you, by the report it had to happen on the whoop section going to little dumont. It actually happened on the dunes about 200 yards to the right of the entrance to the whoop section heading towards comp hill (eyewitness account from another site).

Here is what he said about what happened "There were no breaking marks... They just drove off like the bottom dropped out(like it did)...it was like a 60 ft drop they indoed off and landed on the nose then front flipped foward...The RZR was sitting on its wheels idleing like 40 ft from the point of impact, there were no tracks from the impact point to where the rzr was... I then traced there tracks to try to find there camp..but the tracks dissappeared over the first finger.. He was NOT driving aggressivly he was just cruising along and didnt see it (there tracks were calm)..."

The driver died instantly, the passenger survived with a nasty gash to her head and a broken back, she is still in critical condition. The passenger has said that both of them were wearing their seatbelts but the coroners report states the driver was not. Some are saying he was but it malfunctioned.

There is many lessons to be learned from this but the main one is to buckle up!
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Old January 5th, 2011, 09:27 AM   #48
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

Quote: Originally Posted by sincity6pack View Post
Vegas Lights, I was there for the weekend also and I thought the same as you, by the report it had to happen on the whoop section going to little dumont. It actually happened on the dunes about 200 yards to the right of the entrance to the whoop section heading towards comp hill (eyewitness account from another site).

Here is what he said about what happened "There were no breaking marks... They just drove off like the bottom dropped out(like it did)...it was like a 60 ft drop they indoed off and landed on the nose then front flipped foward...The RZR was sitting on its wheels idleing like 40 ft from the point of impact, there were no tracks from the impact point to where the rzr was... I then traced there tracks to try to find there camp..but the tracks dissappeared over the first finger.. He was NOT driving aggressivly he was just cruising along and didnt see it (there tracks were calm)..."

The driver died instantly, the passenger survived with a nasty gash to her head and a broken back, she is still in critical condition. The passenger has said that both of them were wearing their seatbelts but the coroners report states the driver was not. Some are saying he was but it malfunctioned.

There is many lessons to be learned from this but the main one is to buckle up!
Holy crap.... 60' drop straight down, then the machine bounced ~40' and landed on it's wheels idling? Poor dude was having an awesome day, then it was all over like a light switch. Spooky that you could just drop off a 60' wall with no indications....
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Old January 5th, 2011, 09:52 AM   #49
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

Quote: Originally Posted by 450grl View Post
There are no signs in the dunes to warn you of any steep drop-offs....the dunes are faaaar too big of an area, and they change all the time. It just wouldn't be possible...

The reason they are dangerous is because people go too fast over the crest of a dune without knowing what's on the other side. There are safe ways to dune, where you can traverse the dune, come up to the lip and get a look over it before heading over the other side....or, for people who haven't mastered that skill, just go slow enough at the top of a dune to where you can stop or change directions if you don't like what you see on the other side.

Many (too many) people go to the dunes and don't understand how they lie (the dunes have a rythm...usually the steep sides are on the same side, and the less steep sides are on the opposite side), and just kinda go balls out because they don't really know how to drive in the sand. Traction is very different in sand.....quads/bikes and UTV's all handle very differently in sand than they do on hardpack. These are things that are learned through careful experience......and with good training from people who know the dunes well.

Heading off of a steep side of a dune is usually what hurts/kills people out there.....it doesn't have to be very fast, if you aren't ready for it and you nose your machine straight down to the bottom. Even in soft sand you can break your neck with the force of a fall....or, dropping off of a steep dune, even a smaller one, you can land face first into the bars, or the ground with your machine landing on top of you - it's just bad no matter how you look at it.

That being said....the dunes offer an amazing, unique experience if you respect them, take the proper precautions, and learn how to drive / ride in them. They are probably my favorite place to be.....
Well said.

Over the 4th of July I had to take a group of first responders, in my rzr4, out to two kids who had no business riding in the dunes. They showed up, wouldn't wear helmets, didn't listen to some basic instructions on riding in the dunes and ended up jumping off the back side of a dune 50ft down. One broke his back the other his leg. This was an example of what happens when you're not careful riding out in the dunes. Always check out the other side of a dune before cresting it. If you haven't ridden in the dunes before, get with someone else who has and can help guide you through them safely.

Jason
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Old January 5th, 2011, 09:54 AM   #50
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

Jason your getting an XP?
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Old January 5th, 2011, 10:13 AM   #51
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

Quote: Originally Posted by FunRide View Post
Holy crap.... 60' drop straight down, then the machine bounced ~40' and landed on it's wheels idling? Poor dude was having an awesome day, then it was all over like a light switch. Spooky that you could just drop off a 60' wall with no indications....
Actually for those that know the dunes there are many indications of what the other side of a dune will look like.
A steep dune on one side usually has a slip face or razor back on the other side... Depending on how hard the wind was blowing will determine how steep the razor back is.... This is just a basic rule of thumb that isn't always true since winds can swirl and also create witches eyes.
Dumont has different conditions than Glamis that create their dune conditions. Lots more slip faces at Dumont.

Here in Fl, going out the inlet at Light House Point there is a sign that says
Local Knowledge Required.
Many tourist take their Yachts out Light House Point inlet and end up on the rocks that hide 1' under the water to the side of the inlet.
To me, to go out at Glamis or any large dune area with no local knowledge or guide, and go blind over a dune, is not wise or good for ones health.

That being said, this is a tragedy and very sad day for the dune community.
My condolences to the family and friends of this accident.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 11:09 AM   #52
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

I don't know. Need to see what I can get out of my rzr first. Not going to lie though, I wouldn't mind getting one of the new ones. The motor is pretty impressive.

Jason

Quote: Originally Posted by RZRUAE View Post
Jason your getting an XP?
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Old January 5th, 2011, 12:08 PM   #53
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

One thing that I think is becoming apparent in this tragedy. It doesn't sound to me like they had a good safety harness system. When new guys and gals come on here and ask the question "What should I buy first?" I always tell them HARNESSES! The stock belts are woefully inadequate and could be the root cause in this case. I run 5 points, which can be a PITA, but they beat the alternative, lights out. Call me crazy, but I wear a helmet too, brain injuries are irreversible. My wife won't wear a helmet, she doesn't get to ride with me, simple as that. For those that are unaware, there's a new ATV helmet law as of January 1st. I'm still trying to determine id RZR's are considered ATV's within the scope of this law.
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Old January 5th, 2011, 02:34 PM   #54
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

All new people in my group I would lead them on a ride firstand most of the rides. I drive to their ability and always tell them if you’re not shure wait at the bottom and I’ll came back around and get you. I always tell them to follow in the same line as I drive and watch the flag on my quad or rzr whatever I ride. That will tell you what conditions are on the other side most of the time
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Old January 5th, 2011, 03:00 PM   #55
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

I heartily agree with the harness/helmet issue.....I have a full blown race Rhino with 5-points and race cage, etc....and I still make sure everyone wears a helmet when we go into the dunes. It's not even so much of an issue of me stuffing my Rhino as much as it is I'm always worried about some idiot in a rail blasting into me somehow. Just because you have a cage around you, doesn't mean your noggin is safe without protection!
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Old January 5th, 2011, 06:54 PM   #56
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

Quote: Originally Posted by sincity6pack View Post
Vegas Lights, I was there for the weekend also and I thought the same as you, by the report it had to happen on the whoop section going to little dumont. It actually happened on the dunes about 200 yards to the right of the entrance to the whoop section heading towards comp hill (eyewitness account from another site).
Wow, truly a tragedy. Nearly every holiday

For those who haven't been, there aren't truly 60' vertical drops, but there are certainly steep sides.
I can't picture in my mind any large dunes before the whoops, but obviously there are. (the first set of whoops or the second? I can remember some after the 2nd set, anyhow that's neither here nor there.)

On a differen't subject Sincity6pack, I hope you had a good weekend. It was a first for my family (other than me) and I was very glad it wasn't very busy. We were there Wednesday to Sunday. Other than the "W" it was pretty good
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Old January 6th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #57
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Re: bad news death at dumont last night

Vegas Lights,

Yeah, definitely a huge tragedy, could have been worse if there wasn't any witnesses, could have 2 fatalities.

I believe it happened at the base of the back side of comp hill. There are some drops, 60' might be pushing it but not by much on some of them.

We've been going there for 3 years now, this was the second trip with the rzr 4. My wife was hit head-on last presidents day on her quad, even doing 10mph on the little dunes can be very dangerous. It was always fun on a quad (not so much fun last presidents day) but it's an absolute blast with the rzr.
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